old cowboy - Posted - 01/29/2020:  12:48:50

What brand of strings do ya'll use on your fiddle and why? I had been using Visions and they were ok. Have a good mellow sound to them. Even after 6 mos. they still sounded good. Then I decided to give Fiddleman strings a try because they were cheaper. Was not satisfied with them. I am looking for something that will give me more of louder sound maybe. I am thinking about trying Dominant. Any suggestions? I play bluegrass. Or at least that's what its supposed to be!

boxbow - Posted - 01/29/2020:  13:46:31

I had good luck with Jargar, but it's Prim for me these days.

stevo-msla - Posted - 01/29/2020:  14:01:34

I’ve used D’Addario Helicore violin strings (medium tension) for more than 15 years. They sound great and last years, and that’s with almost daily playing. I’m an old time fiddler and do a lot of cross tuning, these strings hold up. I tried heavy tension strings for the increased volume for a couple days but found them to be less responsive for my bowing. My fiddling pals are now using them, too.

I played Thomastik Dominant strings for many years and liked the sound, but they didn’t last as long. The A string would begin to unwind, or the A or E string would break, and that was likely aggregated by the cross tuning. The coating would turn my finger tips black, too, but that might just be my skin oils.

bandsmcnamar - Posted - 01/29/2020:  14:02:20

Prims for me too. I play around with E strings I mostly use the Prim Lisa E, the Prirastro Gold, or on my main fiddle a Warchal coiled E. I have also used Helicores and Dominants, but currently do not.

Lonesome Fiddler - Posted - 01/29/2020:  14:02:56

It hurts me to say this but when I tore some aged steel strings off my cheap old German trade fiddle and replaced them with a set of Dominants, I was shocked at how good that old fiddle sounded. Was it just a case of fresh strings or the superiority of the Dominants? In any case, I'm now paranoid about tuning to the fiddle to Cross A. Suddenly, it's Cross G for me.

coryobert - Posted - 01/29/2020:  15:05:21

I've tried quite a few brands, but I always come back to Prims. They last forever, and there's never any surprises. Old reliable.

farmerjones - Posted - 01/30/2020:  05:46:34

I've had a set of Prim's last 6 years. They are what i tend to use. Evah's are great but i can't say how long they last. I actually tried them as loners.



If you don't have the cash for Prims, D' Addario Preludes are of similar construction. (solid steel core) D'Addario Hellicores have a stranded core, meant to sound more like a Dominant string.



End of day, Prim's long life offsets the price for me. I use just a plane single strand E-strings. Once again, for durability.

Edited by - farmerjones on 01/30/2020 05:47:33

Earworm - Posted - 01/30/2020:  06:39:25

Pirastro Chromcors. It’s all I’ve ever used, so I don’t have much to compare with, but I like them. Good power, sweet tone.

UsuallyPickin - Posted - 01/30/2020:  06:58:53

I firmly believe that for each instrument and pair of ears ... ie. taste ... there is a perfect string. $$$ and time .... A good place to start is either Helicore or Prim if you cross tune a lot and Dominant or Eva Pirazzi if you don't. As a 'grasser I finally settled into Prim strings with a Lisa E . THey are a cost effective choice for me. I have to admit trying and loving the Platinum plated E string from Peter Enfield but $$$. Champagne tastes on a beer budget. < sigh. R/

Earworm - Posted - 01/30/2020:  07:01:39

quote:

---

Originally posted by stevo-msla

I’ve used D’Addario Helicore violin strings (medium tension) for more than 15 years. They sound great and last years, and that’s with almost daily playing.

Steve, how many years do you make them last? Do you wait until they break to change them, or something?

ChickenMan - Posted - 01/30/2020:  07:54:50

I have settled on medium Prims with their “Lisa” E (because the E in the set is not as sweet sounding). I found Helicores to be less durable, particularly the A string. Rumor has it the A string is no longer an issue with them, but I discovered Prims and won’t be switching back.

About string longevity. Steel strings do indeed last many years, but that doesn’t mean they sound as good as they did in the first 6-12 months. Guitar strings can last decades, but they sound dead after a year (sooner really, if you play regularly). Wiping your fiddle strings with a clean cloth will help them last but ultimately, wear from sweat and bodily oils dull them and will affect tuning/intonation. Do yourself a favor and change your strings occasionally.

Viper - Posted - 01/30/2020:  09:55:04

I've been using Prims for the last few years. Just tried the Lisa E recently, and am liking that configuration.

coryobert - Posted - 01/30/2020:  17:31:07

I guess I'll have to try the Lisa E again. I had put one on with my last set of prims, but switched back to the prim E. Didn't like it for some reason that I don't remember. What is it that everyone likes about the Lisa? I've always thought the Prim E was just fine.

farmerjones - Posted - 01/30/2020:  19:42:00

Don't know about Lisa E strings but at one time one could get a set of Prims with a wound or solid E string. My experiences tells me the wound E strings unwind eventually. I don't think i'm heavy handed. Maybe wound E strings don't squeal as easily. Maybe a little.

stevo-msla - Posted - 01/31/2020:  08:45:29

Earworm asked how long I keep a set of Helicores on my fiddle. It’s pretty subjective, for instance recently I changed a set because I noticed it had been 5 years and was really surprised. And the new set was an improvement but not so much that I also swapped strings on my second regularly played fiddle with the same age of strings. Though I will soon, it’s just not that critical, and I’ll be using both at a contradance this Saturday. I’m pretty casual about swapping strings, especially on my fiddles and banjos. And, for instance, I change strings on my mandolin and guitar only once a year, that’s about the time they begin to require retuning while being played, but also they aren’t played daily like the fiddles are. I’m obviously less critical of the condition of my strings than others, and am okay with some loss of brightness. Steve

martynspeck - Posted - 01/31/2020:  09:51:28

Had Helicores for years and they're great but thought the were a little bright for my fiddle.

I recently put Larsen Tziganes on to get a warmer tone and am loving them now.

I find this chart helpful when choosing strings: sharmusic.com/Pages/How-To/Str...ng-Chart/

Lonesome Fiddler - Posted - 01/31/2020:  13:17:02

quote:

---

Originally posted by ChickenMan

About string longevity. Steel strings do indeed last many years, but that doesn’t mean they sound as good as they did in the first 6-12 months. Guitar strings can last decades, but they sound dead after a year (sooner really, if you play regularly).

---

In my acoustic guitar playing heyday, the 1970s-1980's, I'd put fresh strings on my guitars every four weeks.  First two days they'd sound hard & trebly but the next two weeks delivered tonal bliss. From then on, it was a slow road down the path from mellow to moribund. 

Fivestride - Posted - 02/02/2020:  04:34:18

Has anyone used Tonica strings?

stumpkicker - Posted - 02/02/2020:  08:33:20

I change my strings every March, to get ready for St. Patrick’s Day and festival season. I’ve been bouncing back and forth between Helicore and Fiddlerman. They sound different, but both sound good.

carlb - Posted - 02/02/2020:  10:16:01

Infelds from Thomastik

DougD - Posted - 02/02/2020:  11:39:04

Fivestride - I usually use steel strings, but had Tonica on one fiddle and am getting ready to put them on another. A good value in a good synthetic string.
Old cowboy - Do you want to use steel or synthetic core strings? It probably doesn't matter so much for Bluegrass, but if you crosstune you probably would want steel core. I think a lot of Bluegrassers like Helicore, sometimes heavy gauge.

Fivestride - Posted - 02/02/2020:  12:26:06

quote:

---

Originally posted by DougD

Fivestride - I usually use steel strings, but had Tonica on one fiddle and am getting ready to put them on another. A good value in a good synthetic string.

Old cowboy - Do you want to use steel or synthetic core strings? It probably doesn't matter so much for Bluegrass, but if you crosstune you probably would want steel core. I think a lot of Bluegrassers like Helicore, sometimes heavy gauge.

---

Fivestride - Posted - 02/02/2020:  12:33:01

I'm an adult who started learning April 2019. I bought my violin from a fiddler and it has a mellow dark tone. It really needs new strings. I want to fiddle but also want to play some classical and worship music. Tonica was mentioned as a good all around string. I have no clue what's on the fiddle now.

Tyler94 - Posted - 02/02/2020:  12:44:50

I've tried a lot more strings than I should have....Preludes, Dominants, Visions, Zyex, Chromcor, Flexocor, Helicore, Tonica, Violino. None were "bad". I've had some where they made horrible whispy noises every time I bowed and made dry gritty double stops, then I cleaned the strings and they sounded lovely. I've also had some that seemed weak and spongey, then on a different day seemed just right. It really comes down to settling on a string and learning how to make it sing.
All of the synthetics (Visions, Dominants, Zyex, Tonica, Violino) I could generally lump into a similar group. All sounded nice, warm, and rather "violinny". None were as crisp or clear as steels, or as responsive. Each had certain unique characteristics, of course. Visons were somewhat clearer and "smooth". Dominants were dead in the middle of the range imo. Not too quiet, loud, soft or overbearing. Tonicas are about the same but a better deal at about $15 cheaper. Violinos were veryyy mellow and soft. Good for loud, bright fiddles. Zyexes were similar to the middle-of-the-road Tonicas and Dominants but a tad softer (too soft) on the G string and the A string sung pretty sweet.
Steels seemed to vary more than synthetics for me, and seemed to need cleaning much more to sound their best. Helicores have a clear but sort of meaty tone. Flexocors are similar and very nice, but after the first set the A strings just started sounding horrible and making falsing notes every time I put my finger on it. The B note repeatedly came out as Bb, e.g. It might just be my fiddle though. Chromcors were a little quieter and, being solid strand and not braided core like the other two, had less overtones and richness. A very smooth string though. Preludes are more of student grade strings but still are very decent for their price.

I ended up settling on medium Helicores. Most folks wouldn't recommend steel core strings for my fiddle since it's bright and loud, but it forced me to develope finesse to tame them and I've really grown to like them. I just wipe them every night before casing my fiddle with a soft bamboo microfiber cloth and they sound great and last for ages. Steels are also the only kind that hold up to cross-tuning so they were a must for me. Synthetics feel soft and crunchy when I try them now, but some make them sound great.

DougD - Posted - 02/02/2020:  14:40:39

Fivestride - I think Tonica might be a good choice for you. At least they won't break the bank. If you want to know what's on your fiddle now, there are sites online they will help you identify them from the silking colors.
Tyler - Did you never try Prim? For a lot of people they're the end of the search. Helicores are good, and the mediums feel nice under your fingers. If you ever want to experiment some more, Pirastro Superflexible and Spirocore have similar core construction. I agree with you that there's a lot more than just the brand of string involved.

Fivestride - Posted - 02/02/2020:  14:47:20

@DougD thanks for all the info and recommendations!

Fivestride - Posted - 02/02/2020:  14:55:09

@Tyler94 you are a wealth of info!
Maybe I need to learn how to change my strings myself and then I can experiment.??

Tyler94 - Posted - 02/02/2020:  15:35:55

quote:

---

Originally posted by DougD

Tyler - Did you never try Prim? For a lot of people they're the end of the search. Helicores are good, and the mediums feel nice under your fingers. If you ever want to experiment some more, Pirastro Superflexible and Spirocore have similar core construction. I agree with you that there's a lot more than just the brand of string involved.

---

I haven't as of yet. I might if Helicores start giving me issues. I heard Prims were a bit louder and less complex than Helis and that's kind of the opposite of what I'm looking for. But sometimes what "shouldn't" work does and you just have to try.

plasticbananer - Posted - 02/02/2020:  16:22:23

Ive tried Prim, Helicore medium and heavy. I didn’t care for Prim. I preferred medium to heavy Helicores. But I keep coming back to pirastro flexacor. Some folks recommended them in another thread. They are rather expensive but they have a smooth strong tone, seem to last a bit longer than helicores, and feel wonderful under the fingers.

Tyler94 - Posted - 02/02/2020:  16:46:54

quote:

---

Originally posted by Fivestride

@Tyler94 you are a wealth of info!

Maybe I need to learn how to change my strings myself and then I can experiment.??

---

Glad to be of service!

And learning to change them yourself is definitely worthwhile. Plenty of Youtubes on it. Some basic things to know are to never have more than 2 strings off at a time and keep an eye on your bridge and make sure it doesn't tilt forward. Some #2 pencil lead on the nut grooves and the bridge grooves also helps the strings slide. 

Edited by - Tyler94 on 02/02/2020 16:47:27

old cowboy - Posted - 02/03/2020:  10:30:58

thanks to everybody for yor advice. After reading what you all had to say I decided on the prims. They seem to be what I'm looking for. Will let you know what happens.

boxbow - Posted - 02/03/2020:  14:44:30

quote:

---

Originally posted by old cowboy

thanks to everybody for yor advice. After reading what you all had to say I decided on the prims. They seem to be what I'm looking for. Will let you know what happens.

---

I have seldom heard (read here on FHO) anyone say they were terrible strings.  Maybe once?  I'm sure there are a few fiddles that won't tolerate them and I'm sure there's the perfect string set out there for yours, maybe in a bottle with a fiddling genie.  In the meantime, they'll do you no harm, at least, and the price is good given their durability.

old cowboy - Posted - 02/04/2020:  07:46:37

got my Prim strings on and am absolutely thrilled with them. They are just what I been looking for! Thank you all for your in put.

fidlpat - Posted - 02/04/2020:  15:36:14

Fivestride, save the old strings because there are usually identifier charts for violin/fiddle strings

I've used a large number, though far from all named here in the thread

Tonicas are very nice,,,but I had the old formula, and there is a new one in use now, so, haven't tried those,,,

I always run back to Prim, at least on my G and D(light gauge), with a Jargar A(medium) and a Hill E string(light)

not unbalanced, because if you read the tension charts for Jargar, even their medium A doesn't pull as hard as some other light gauge A's



want to try a pair of Jargar on the bottom, but haven't gotten around to it yet,,,

Edited by - fidlpat on 02/04/2020 15:36:41

Humbled by this instrument - Posted - 02/09/2020:  17:48:39

Helicore mediums for twenty years.

Okay, I have actually changed them every now and then. What I'm saying is that the brand I use is Helicore. I mean...I change my strings at least once every five years.

The Violin Beautiful - Posted - 03/08/2020:  11:54:57

Steel strings have a flatter, more piercing tone. You get loudness but only at a cost to depth.



Synthetic strings have more tone color, and you can adjust loudness by choosing different tensions. Vision strings are the closest to steel, as they’re just plain loud, but not at all nuanced. Evah Pirazzi, another high tension string, has loudness but with a bit of depth. Peter Infeld is more of a muscular set—lots of power and projection for reaching the back of a room. Dominants are right in the middle—not too dark, not too bright. Evah Golds are somewhat like Dominants, but a little more voluminous. Obligatos are darker and warmer, but not quite as powerful. Prim and Jargar are a bit warmer, but they’re pretty muddy—the technology has improved quite a lot since those strings were developed, and they’ve been surpassed. Some people have been using Warchal more lately, as they’re supposed to be a little warmer.

Edited by - The Violin Beautiful on 03/08/2020 11:55:45

Tyler94 - Posted - 03/08/2020:  16:04:36

quote:

---

Originally posted by The Violin Beautiful

Prim and Jargar are a bit warmer, but they’re pretty muddy—the technology has improved quite a lot since those strings were developed, and they’ve been surpassed.

---

Prims are a single strand steel core string known for being on the brighter side (at least as I remember), and I'm pretty sure they're one of the 2 or 3 most popular fiddle strings. Saying they've been surpassed is questionable in my opinion anyway. If they were clearly surpassed, I don't think they would be in business anymore. Dominants are the oldest synthetic strings on the market and Itzhak Perlman and Hilary Hahn seem to have fine opinions of them....in other words age shouldn't have a bearing on your judgement of their quality.

The Violin Beautiful - Posted - 03/08/2020:  18:12:36

quote:

---

Originally posted by Tyler94

quote:

---

Originally posted by The Violin Beautiful

Prim and Jargar are a bit warmer, but they’re pretty muddy—the technology has improved quite a lot since those strings were developed, and they’ve been surpassed.

---

Prims are a single strand steel core string known for being on the brighter side (at least as I remember), and I'm pretty sure they're one of the 2 or 3 most popular fiddle strings. Saying they've been surpassed is questionable in my opinion anyway. If they were clearly surpassed, I don't think they would be in business anymore. Dominants are the oldest synthetic strings on the market and Itzhak Perlman and Hilary Hahn seem to have fine opinions of them....in other words age shouldn't have a bearing on your judgement of their quality.

---

My point was just that Prims haven't stood the test of time in the way that Dominants have, at least for violin. Prims remain on the market mostly as a budget or student  string. Fifty years ago Prim and Jargar was the leading combination for cello setup, but the emergence of better quality strings like Larsen and Spirocore relegated them to being cheap rental strings that are just one small step up from Preludes.

As a luthier, I really like to avoid high tension steel strings, as they can wreak havoc on instruments. Steel sets like Prelude and Old Fiddler exert  a lot of extra pressure on a top. The violinstringreview chart of tensions doesn't list numbers for Prim, but they've got to be pretty high. 

Edited by - The Violin Beautiful on 03/08/2020 18:24:48

farmerjones - Posted - 03/08/2020:  20:23:03

 

As a luthier, I really like to avoid high tension steel strings, as they can wreak havoc on instruments. Steel sets like Prelude and Old Fiddler exert  a lot of extra pressure on a top. The violinstringreview chart of tensions doesn't list numbers for Prim, but they've got to be pretty high. 

---

From what i understand, top tension concerns, are directed more for preservation of violins constructed in the age of gut strings, i.e. Original Del Jesu, etc. Late model violins are built for modern strings. No?

The Violin Beautiful - Posted - 03/09/2020:  06:22:44

quote:

---

Originally posted by farmerjones

 

As a luthier, I really like to avoid high tension steel strings, as they can wreak havoc on instruments. Steel sets like Prelude and Old Fiddler exert  a lot of extra pressure on a top. The violinstringreview chart of tensions doesn't list numbers for Prim, but they've got to be pretty high. 

---

From what i understand, top tension concerns, are directed more for preservation of violins constructed in the age of gut strings, i.e. Original Del Jesu, etc. Late model violins are built for modern strings. No?

---

No. Keep in mind that the top quality string brands are used on 400 year old violins and brand new ones alike. Tension concerns apply to all instruments. Keep in mind that most modern violins are made in the same dimensions as the old Cremonese instruments. And there's plenty of evidence that del Gesu left his backs much thicker than what's considered the average today. It's just that most of them have been regraduated to make them easier to play. High tension strings are far more likely to cause structural issues like arching deformation and dropped projection. Steel strings also wear down the nut and bridge grooves much faster.

Edited by - The Violin Beautiful on 03/09/2020 06:25:40

Lonesome Fiddler - Posted - 03/09/2020:  13:42:45

The Violin Beautiful -- I'm lovin' your posts. Straight-on, informed analyses of issues fiddle owners should be aware of...whether we follow your advice or not. You've convinced me to use steel strings only on my inexpensive factory fiddle.

Then again, the only fiddle that's ever failed me is my 'good' one, one I've never strung with anything but synthetics. One morning I opened the case to find the neck had magically become unglued. I dispatched the fiddle off to the shop I bought it from, Benning Violins in L.A. Grandfatherly Hans Benning glued it back on and gently said, "These things happen."

Tyler94 - Posted - 03/09/2020:  16:57:53

quote:

---

Originally posted by The Violin Beautiful

quote:

---

Originally posted by Tyler94

quote:

---

Originally posted by The Violin Beautiful

Prim and Jargar are a bit warmer, but they’re pretty muddy—the technology has improved quite a lot since those strings were developed, and they’ve been surpassed.

---

Prims are a single strand steel core string known for being on the brighter side (at least as I remember), and I'm pretty sure they're one of the 2 or 3 most popular fiddle strings. Saying they've been surpassed is questionable in my opinion anyway. If they were clearly surpassed, I don't think they would be in business anymore. Dominants are the oldest synthetic strings on the market and Itzhak Perlman and Hilary Hahn seem to have fine opinions of them....in other words age shouldn't have a bearing on your judgement of their quality.

---

My point was just that Prims haven't stood the test of time in the way that Dominants have, at least for violin. Prims remain on the market mostly as a budget or student  string. Fifty years ago Prim and Jargar was the leading combination for cello setup, but the emergence of better quality strings like Larsen and Spirocore relegated them to being cheap rental strings that are just one small step up from Preludes.

As a luthier, I really like to avoid high tension steel strings, as they can wreak havoc on instruments. Steel sets like Prelude and Old Fiddler exert  a lot of extra pressure on a top. The violinstringreview chart of tensions doesn't list numbers for Prim, but they've got to be pretty high. 

---

While I respect that you're a luthier and probably know far more about violins than I do, I would have to disagree with you about a couple of things. In the violin world Prims might be seen purely as budget strings but a lot of fiddlers use them just because they just like the tone. To me, synthetics like Dominants, Tonicas and Obligatos feel like rubber bands and sound fuzzy and unresponsive for drones and doublestops. But I know they must be good strings or else so many good violinists wouldn't use them. Just different strokes for different folks.

As for tensions, I really like a heavier string. Medium helicores run the closest in comparison of steel strings in tension to medium synthetics and I usually opt for the heavies. Bobby Hicks and Stuart Duncan use the same. Kenny Baker played on medium Thomastik Rope Cores which I understand are now called Superflexibles and their mediums run even higher than Helicore heavies. A medium set of Helicores has a total tension of 53 lbs and a set of heavies is only a 4.3 lb increase (8.7%  more). I could be wrong but as I see it, if those extra 4.3 lbs wreak havoc on an instrument there must have been something wrong with the instrument in the first place. Just my way of looking at it! I could be wrong.

farmerjones - Posted - 03/09/2020:  18:44:57

quote:

---

Originally posted by The Violin Beautiful

quote:

---

Originally posted by farmerjones

 

As a luthier, I really like to avoid high tension steel strings, as they can wreak havoc on instruments. Steel sets like Prelude and Old Fiddler exert  a lot of extra pressure on a top. The violinstringreview chart of tensions doesn't list numbers for Prim, but they've got to be pretty high. 

---

From what i understand, top tension concerns, are directed more for preservation of violins constructed in the age of gut strings, i.e. Original Del Jesu, etc. Late model violins are built for modern strings. No?

---

No. Keep in mind that the top quality string brands are used on 400 year old violins and brand new ones alike. Tension concerns apply to all instruments. Keep in mind that most modern violins are made in the same dimensions as the old Cremonese instruments. And there's plenty of evidence that del Gesu left his backs much thicker than what's considered the average today. It's just that most of them have been regraduated to make them easier to play. High tension strings are far more likely to cause structural issues like arching deformation and dropped projection. Steel strings also wear down the nut and bridge grooves much faster.

---

Read your bio. R.M. We're fortunate to have you for these discussions. How does regraduating a top and/or bottom plate make a violin easier to play?

The Violin Beautiful - Posted - 03/09/2020:  22:23:14

 

Read your bio. R.M. We're fortunate to have you for these discussions. How does regraduating a top and/or bottom plate make a violin easier to play?

---

If the plates are thicker, it can make it feel as though you really have to pull the sound out of it, as opposed to gently coaxing it out. Paganini's violin, the Cannon, is a spectacular instrument, but it's also known for being challenging to play. There are lots of violins throughout the world that have plates that are thicker than normal, but, unlike the Cannon, they do not sound very pleasant. Regraduating can change the way they respond significantly. 

AmandaDandre - Posted - 03/25/2020:  03:19:37

I'm not a pro violinist, but Dominant Strings have been working well for me.

Lonesome Fiddler - Posted - 03/25/2020:  14:14:14

I wanted a set of steel strings for the fiddle I use for AEAE cross-tuning, and the voice at the other end of the line at Shar Music suggested Zyex over Prims. I got the strings. Apart from the E string, which by turns either whistled or made no sound whatever, I've been loving them. Assertive and bright but not screechy. Plenty of volume. Plenty of color. As for the E string, I tore it off the fiddle and replaced it with the Dominant E string that had been there previously. Case closed.

DougD - Posted - 03/25/2020:  14:19:13

Zyex are not steel strings. They are kevlar. Some folks love 'em, some hate 'em. I guess it depends on the instrument. I think they're the only string made of that material.

Fivestride - Posted - 03/25/2020:  14:33:20

@DougD and @Tyler94
The rest of the story: my fiddle had Prelude strings on it. My luthier played the fiddle for a couple of minutes and suggested Evah Pirazzis. Got them on and played with them for weeks. Ugh. My fiddle had lost the sound I loved so much. Now it has medium Helicores and It's ok but still not the same. My instructor says just keep playing it as much as possible and everything will settle in.

Lonesome Fiddler - Posted - 03/25/2020:  15:10:24

quote:

---

Originally posted by DougD

Zyex are not steel strings. They are kevlar. Some folks love 'em, some hate 'em. I guess it depends on the instrument. I think they're the only string made of that material.

---

Thanks for the clarification.  In any event, I'm liking them, and they haven't exploded from the added tension yet...