BrainTree56 - Posted - 11/24/2017:  10:12:44

I'm upgrading from a beginner fiddle for the first time. I have a fiddle out on for approval from a local restorer who has a good reputation in my area. I'm guessing it's impossible for everyone to give me information without actually seeing/playing the fiddle... However, figured I'd put it out there.

It has a label that says "a copy of antonius stradivarius cremonensis in year 1700". He thinks it's from Nippon prior to 1921. It seems to be fixed up well. Selling for $1000.

Curious what others might think about this fiddle. Sounds and plays well to me.

amwildman - Posted - 11/24/2017:  10:50:36

At $1000 you have literlly hundreds of options. How does it compare to its peers at that price point? Unless you do comparisons you will never know.

I seem to recall that Nippons have a reputation as being a bit heavy. Maybe your restorer did some regrad work. If not, I think you could find some better players. Won't know without trying a few.

michaeljennings - Posted - 11/24/2017:  13:16:19

I have one of the "Trademark NIPPON" [1896 to 1921...most probably imported during WWI due to the understandable drop in European availability and import] fiddles that is in great shape and set up well. Even with Obligatos I would describe it as "strident, Loud, bit nasal. Good fundamentals but lacking in color.....
I'd be a bit embarrassed to ask $1000. for mine... maybe $600ish.

That said, with a wire mute it's a great practice fiddle.... no missing the intonation with that strong fundamental.

UsuallyPickin - Posted - 11/24/2017:  15:17:00

IMO it sounds to me to be a little pricey for what you are getting. But I haven't played it or seen it. Luck R/ ...

BrainTree56 - Posted - 11/24/2017:  16:14:05

Thanks. That's good info. I've been playing it all day and it definitely has a very nice tone - to my ears. I'm also finding it very easy to play. The man I bought it from seems like a really stand-up guy. And I find it encouraging that he's letting me take it home for a couple of weeks... Plus he offers 80-100% trade-up value down the road.

Would it be helpful if I posted some sound recordings, pictures, and/or video?

I'm going to bring it to my usual jam and let the other fiddlers I play with take a look. I've only done a side-by-side with my own cheap-o fiddle. It definitely sounds better than mine!

amwildman - Posted - 11/24/2017:  16:47:43

No it would not help. Need to have it in hand to tell anything.

What is special about this guys in home trial policy or his trade up policy? Every single good shop does the same things. Hundreds of them across the country. And why is his 500 fiddle priced at 1000? What has he done to it to demand such a high price?

Do what you want, but it sounds like a bad deal to me.

BrainTree56 - Posted - 11/25/2017:  10:31:49

I didn't realize that others do the in home trial thing. My biggest problem is that there are not a lot of shops to chose from in my area. In fact, I haven't been able to find ANY that have fiddles less than $1000... So, I'm stuck either buying on-line without trying first or going with something like this.

I know that he replaced the sound bar and did some other work. When I said he was a stand-up guy - I don't think he's intentionally screwing me, I think he honestly thinks it's worth $1000 (whether he's right or wrong is a different story...).

It definitely feels very nice and sounds pretty amazing. The more I play it, the more I like it... I like the tone quality much better than other fiddles I've played from members of my Jam. I also did some recording in my home studio and it just sat right in the mix easily and sounded great!

Such a bummer because if he was selling it for 600 or 700 - I would be totally satisfied.

I'm going to expand my search radius and hopefully get some others to try from 'nearby' cities. I might still go with this one - even if it isn't a good deal - maybe try to negotiate the price a bit.

If anyone has any on-line options - I'd appreciate it.

bandsmcnamar - Posted - 11/25/2017:  12:33:58

There are definitely a couple of different Nippon fiddles available out there. A great number of them are made with Japanese woods, and very plain, yes a bit heavy as mentioined earlier, and are in general loud and somewhat brash. There are some from that time frame, made using the best Europeon woods of the time, and though they still have the signature Japanese finish, are quite attactive and can sound very nice. I have one bought by a family member in 1919, that really is quite a nice instrument. It was appraised for an amount more than the $1000 asking price for the one you are looking at. So, I'd not be too quick to assume much about it, without taking a look see. Do you know another fiddler who could play it while you listen, and get their opinion on it too? Just for the sake of discussion here's a couple of pics of mine.

Edited by - bandsmcnamar on 11/25/2017 12:35:07

1920 Nippon violin

1920 Nippon violin

BrainTree56 - Posted - 11/25/2017:  16:10:51

Thanks - yes, I'm bringing it to a jam on Tuesday to have other fiddlers play it. I would note that this fiddle is extremely light - it's significantly lighter than my current fiddle and, my impression was that it was lighter than other fiddles I've played. It was lighter than the other "way out of my price range" fiddles he showed me in his shop.

So... Maybe this one is appropriately priced... Regardless, I think I've learned that I need to be looking around a bit more..

Thanks!

Cyndy - Posted - 11/26/2017:  01:54:41

I have two Nippon fiddles and they are as different as night and day.



Earlier in the thread, Michael described his as "strident, Loud, bit nasal. Good fundamentals but lacking in color" and I'd say one of mine is probably similar. It was set up by someone I trust and I think it has a decent tone for playing old-time fiddle tunes but it lacks depth. Still, it's a much more satisfying instrument than the shiny beginner violin I started out on and every time I think about selling it, I decide it's worth keeping it around. (I'd consider it to be noticeably light but I don't keep a chin rest on it.)



The other one (French label, but luthiers seem to agree it's a Nippon) has a solid feel (but I wouldn't consider it heavy), a very comfortable neck, and a smooth, mellow tone. And, it's distinctly brown with rosewood pegs.



By way of comparison, I have a third fiddle that I would consider to be a decent instrument for an amateur old-time fiddler (fiddlehangout.com/classified/7726) but if I could only keep one I'm pretty sure it would be the brown Nippon. I like the sound and feel and it seems to be somewhat unique. I'm very fond of it for those reasons.



If your Nippon is similar to the first one I mention, you could probably do better. But if, as you say, it "feels very nice and sounds pretty amazing" and there's something about it that you really like, then I don't think you'd regret keeping it, especially knowing you could trade it in down the road. I bought mine about eight years ago. The cost was significant (but less than mentioned here) but I still feel like it was a wise purchase.

Edited by - Cyndy on 11/26/2017 02:09:39

michaeljennings - Posted - 11/26/2017:  07:46:25

The fiddle I have is indeed one of the one's made with Japanese Woods. I recovered/rescued it from the "Take it or Leave it" at out local dump. No pegs, Bridge, Tailpiece, Rest.... but the Corpus and Neck undamaged and in good shape.
With all that taken care of.... It does sound as I described it. And it is staying around.... No worries about outside playing, Taking it "Over to the Cabin" etc..etc...
Upside is I'm pretty sure Lions, Tigers, and Bears as well as the local Feral Cats are successfully kept at bay........ Not sure about the local Coyotes thought.... I may be actually calling them in.......... Could be my Playing!!!!??????....... nah,,,,,, it's the fiddle right????!!!

Cyndy - Posted - 11/29/2017:  18:18:47

quote:

---

Originally posted by BrainTree56

Thanks - yes, I'm bringing it to a jam on Tuesday to have other fiddlers play it. 

---

As you might have guessed from my post above, I have a thing for Nippon fiddles. :)

Just wondering how it went at the jam? What did people think? :)

BrainTree56 - Posted - 11/29/2017:  19:05:31

I actually didn't bring it... It was pushing my budget. It was also one of the first fiddles I've checked out. I figured I should look around some more. In addition - I found someone else who lives local and fixes up old Violins in his retirement, sells them out of his shop. I bought a decent instrument for $400. He was able to show me over 10 fiddles ranging in price from 400 - 1000. Some very neat interesting dinged up and scratched instruments. The Nippon definitely felt like it had finer craftsmanship than most of them, but the prices were better on these and I felt better about the deal I was getting.

The one I bought is definitely a step-up student level fiddle. But it sounds nice to my ears and didn't break the bank. Plus I met a nice guy who lives 10 minutes away from me...

The fiddle was the only newer instrument he had - it's an Ivon Dunov (which I think is Eastman's cheap-o brand). After looking around on the internet - I think it was appropriately priced. Especially since he spent over an hour with me talking fiddles and letting me try different instruments. And he said that if I play it for awhile and decide I should have taken one of the other ones - I could go back and exchange it.

I felt positive about the experience, even if I'm still pining for a better instrument... I got time. One will come eventually.

I appreciate everyone's input.

BrainTree56 - Posted - 11/29/2017:  19:12:07

But to answer you're earlier question. I'd say that the Nippon did not feel heavy, in fact it was lighter than most of the others (which I actually felt it was too light, like I would break it if I set it down too hard...)

The neck felt notably comfortable, thin, and solid.

There was a lot of tone. I'd say that it sounded very full and earthy... It was very rich. It might have been appropriately priced - there was something nice about it. (Although I still don't think it was for me...) :)

Cyndy - Posted - 11/29/2017:  19:19:52

Thanks for the update! Sounds like it all worked out.

I think I'm different than many people, but once I found my two good fiddles and a decent bow, that pining--which I very definitely felt--just went away.

One of these days, you'll find exactly what you're after and that will be a happy day. :)

amwildman - Posted - 11/29/2017:  19:36:38

Dunov is not a cheapo line. It is just a different line. I think it might have been intended as the upgrade option (prettier woods etc) over Eastman. Others could say for sure, but I think they are basically fancier Eastmans. But who knows, since makers change that sort of thing all the time?

By the way, there are no such things as student fiddles. Just cheaper fiddles. Don't let a marketing term make you feel like you need to spend more money. Almost all of us own 'student' fiddles of one type or another. I'd wager that most of us own fiddles worth less than $1500 or so. They all get the job done, and the connection between it's personality and ours is way more important than a label or a price tag.