ib_redbeard - Posted - 11/20/2017:  09:45:29

Hi everyone,
Like a lot of new people to this forum, I am also looking for advice in buying a new fiddle. I have been researching which fiddles to buy for over a month and my brain is mush. There is so much to consider, and I realize that what sounds great to me might sound like crap to someone who is experienced. I live in a very remote part of Canada, so going to a fiddle shop is not possible. The closest city of any size is 15 hours away, so I am dependent on reviews, advice, etc that I can find on the internet. My budget is not huge, but I am hoping it will suffice for a beginner as I am literally on my 10th lesson this week. My ebay special fiddle (rothenbergI think?) is just not cutting it anymore. Below is a list of the violins/fiddles that I have it down to. I don’t mind paying a little more for a lot more in quality, but if the Fiddlerman Appreciative is just as good as the Gliga Gems 1 than I would rather get the Apprentice. Thanks for any advice.


Fiddlerman Violin Concert
• Fiddlerman strings, advertised as Dominants
• Carbon Fibre bow
• Ebony accessories
• 450 USD plus shipping
• Case
Fiddlerman Apprentice
• Fiddlerman Violin strings
• Carbon Fibre bow
• Ebony Accessories
• Case
• $350USD plus shipping

Kennedy Bunnel G2
• Helicore strings
• Carbon fibre bow
• Case
• Ebony accessories
• $353 USD shipping
• Can get it for $100 cheaper with their clearance violins (just cosmetic blemish so they say)
Gliga GEM2
• Helicore strings
• Carbon Fibre bow
• Case
• Ebony accessories
• $370 USD plus shipping

Gliga Gems1
• Dominany strings
• Carbon Fibre bow
• Awesome case
• Ebony accessories
• 516 USD plus shipping

bluenote23 - Posted - 11/20/2017:  10:27:30

Well yesterday, in this thread, there was a very short discussion about Kennedy violins fiddlehangout.com/topic/45886/.

A forum member says how his Antonio Guiliani violin is really great and he paid $700 for it. So I took a quick look at the Kennedy violin site and saw they were selling the same violin as a blemished model for $349. kennedyviolins.com/instruments/violins

Now I know nothing at all about these violins (I have an Eastman 908 that's supposed to be okay but after 16 months learning, it still sounds pretty terrible!) but based on the endorsment in that other thread, it might be definitely worth looking into.

ib_redbeard - Posted - 11/20/2017:  10:34:40

Thanks for the reply. I seen the post about the Kennedy Violins, and that is great information to know. For some reason I am really leaning towards the Gliga, simply because the reviews always seem to be great and Gliga Violins are apparently made by the gliga family. I have nothing against chinese violins (some people argue that the Gliga violins are Chinese, some say that they aren't, but I assume that they aren't), but I do like the idea of a violin coming from a known luthier to the store rather than some place in China to a store.

Edited by - ib_redbeard on 11/20/2017 10:35:55

bluenote23 - Posted - 11/20/2017:  10:49:57

Well, not to make your life too difficult but over on the Violinlab.com forum, there is one member, Diane from SoCal, who, I believe runs a shop. Whenever a forum member mentions Gligas (and there are a few members who have them and like them) she always gives a highly critical negative opinion about them.

I personally found it very difficult, being a beginner who couldn't really play to make sense of any of the mass of anecdotes and 2nd and 3rd hand information about violins there is on the internet.

Hopefully you'll get a bit more lucky here and run into some folks with first hand knowledge of the instruments you're interested in.

One thing that I have found from my own experience is that I don't know if a violin ever sounds very good in the hands of beginner. Like I said, I have what is supposed to be a pretty good violin but in the beginning, it sounded just awful.

Suzuki talks about 'hearing the beautiful tone when you play' but there was no beauty at all in my tone. 16 months in and I am starting to get an inkling of what this violin may be able to do but it still doesn't sound very good.

ib_redbeard - Posted - 11/20/2017:  10:58:39

Thanks again! There is a member here that posted a review about the Antonio Guiliani violin, and he also has a Gliga as well. He mentioned that the Gliga was his favourite before he bought the Antonio Guiliani so now I have to look further into this violin! I wish I could play both.

captainhook - Posted - 11/20/2017:  14:26:34

quote:

---

Originally posted by ib_redbeard

I wish I could play both.

---

Here is the key. Regardless of "brand" no two fiddles are exactly alike. Some of those "seconds" may not play well. Your best bet, if you can, is to find a seller who will send two or three, even of the same model, to try out. With help from your teacher, select the best and return the others. Hope that you get something that will take you to the next level. Simply put, buying remotely is a crapshoot.

amwildman - Posted - 11/20/2017:  17:19:54

I haven't heard great things about the student level Gliga violins. Setup issues abound, and setup is the most critical factor for new players.

My second thought is that it must be better value to buy from your own country, especially when you factor in exchange rate and import duties etc. Is there a reason you're looking at US retailers? I'm sure there is a Canadian retailer or two that would give you just as good service as the ones you listed.

ib_redbeard - Posted - 11/20/2017:  17:31:32

quote:

---

Originally posted by amwildman

I haven't heard great things about the student level Gliga violins. Setup issues abound, and setup is the most critical factor for new players.



My second thought is that it must be better value to buy from your own country, especially when you factor in exchange rate and import duties etc. Is there a reason you're looking at US retailers? I'm sure there is a Canadian retailer or two that would give you just as good service as the ones you listed.

---

Hi, as sad as it is, I cannot find any.  For example, where you buy a gliga in the states is violinlovers.com and in Canada it is violinlovers.ca.  The gems 2 outfit, with carbon bow, case, etc is 422usd with shipping.  The Canadian one?  In the 700's.  The other few ones I found have their own violins made in China and configured and branded as their own.  Usually with little reviews.  It's usually cheaper to buy American with most things even with the exchange rate, simply because of the higher population drives the price low. 

Edited by - ib_redbeard on 11/20/2017 17:32:34

amwildman - Posted - 11/20/2017:  18:19:03

If I may say so, you're looking at things all wrong

They're all made in China under about $3000USD. That is just the way the violin business is. A shop isn't just slapping a label on a Chinese VSO, they are doing setup and quality control on each instrument. Probably about $200 worth of work into each fiddle. At your budget, and in your circumstances, caring about where a fiddle was made is just silly. You should care about how it plays and how well it is constructed. My advise is to call a respected seller, explain your circumstances and budget, and listen to what they have to say. Make sure they have a good warranty and then exchange money for a fiddle.

And let's dispel the notion that Chinese violins are bad. There are many levels of fiddles coming out of China, some of them are amazingly good, and a good violin shop only buys from the better Chinese factories.

ib_redbeard - Posted - 11/20/2017:  18:43:23

Well, maybe I will wait until I can get out of here and go to an actual violin store. I was lucky to be at one a little while ago before I was in the market to buy a violin. It was a cremosa and made in Germany so the label said. No idea what the model was though and they wanted $390 for it. No idea on what strings and there was a bit of paint missing. I did play it for fun, and it was nice. Maybe they still have it. :D

Thanks everyone for the help, although I am not a man of patience so waiting 4 or 5 months before going to a big city is not something I really want to do. haha

Cyndy - Posted - 11/20/2017:  21:07:20

There are many options for buying a violin, but take a look at the Bluegrass Shack website and maybe give them a call.

thebluegrassshack.com

I bought my first "good" fiddle there, in person, and I came away thinking that they really try hard to make sure the instruments that they sell are set up right. I also think they try really hard to describe them accurately.

They have fiddles in all different price ranges and there might be one that would meet your needs. If it were me, I'd take a good look at the used ones, but they offer new ones, too.

I don't know what style of music you play, but if it isn't bluegrass, don't let the store's name scare you off. I play old-time. :)

ib_redbeard - Posted - 11/20/2017:  21:11:23

Thanks Cyndy, I will have a look at them. The style I am "trying" to play is an Irish style. I am from the East Coast, and my grandfather used to listen to this style all the time.

illinoisfiddler - Posted - 11/20/2017:  21:42:24

That isn't absolutely true. There are many good German and European instruments for under $3000, and some for more than that, that also have meticulous setup and finish as well. Gill and Dimbath are shop-made but these are far from factory instruments. In addition, there are many older, second-hand violins that *may* need some work, but can sound superb.

My advice to a beginner is to get the absolute best violin AND bow one can afford, including setup. So many beginners quit once they hit the limitations of their instrument. Yet, on the other hand, beginners are ill-equipped to get the most out of their instruments. There has to be a compromise: an instrument should be able to inspire and grow with the musician, yet a good musician must realize that more than 50% of the sound is actually in their hands, bow and technique, not necessarily in the instrument.--Steve

quote:

---

Originally posted by amwildman

If I may say so, you're looking at things all wrong



They're all made in China under about $3000USD. That is just the way the violin business is. A shop isn't just slapping a label on a Chinese VSO, they are doing setup and quality control on each instrument. Probably about $200 worth of work into each fiddle. At your budget, and in your circumstances, caring about where a fiddle was made is just silly. You should care about how it plays and how well it is constructed. My advise is to call a respected seller, explain your circumstances and budget, and listen to what they have to say. Make sure they have a good warranty and then exchange money for a fiddle.



And let's dispel the notion that Chinese violins are bad. There are many levels of fiddles coming out of China, some of them are amazingly good, and a good violin shop only buys from the better Chinese factories.

---

Edited by - illinoisfiddler on 11/20/2017 21:46:53

amwildman - Posted - 11/21/2017:  06:22:33

Of course there are exceptions. But those are closer to $3k than OP's budget.

For that matter, OP has made it clear that he wants a$500 good, working condition violin that is not made in China. That is not a reasonable set of criteria based on the way the violin market works.

The fact of the matter is that there is a minimum price point for good working student violins from a shop. This minimum price is generally about $4-500 for a Chinese shop label. They go up quickly from there. As is the case with most types of merchandise, deals can be found, especially on the used market, but requires legwork, time, and patience. Telling the OP otherwise is doing him a disservice. I wouldn't feel right about painting a less than realistic picture.

amwildman - Posted - 11/21/2017:  06:28:46

And let's not forget about the bow.....

Have you looked through the classifieds here? Steve still has his Appalachian posted for sale.

Rowdy - Posted - 11/21/2017:  07:15:13

You might want to consider this Canadaian outfit up in Kamloops. Rhianna offers to send you a new or vintage fiddle for a trial period to see if it suits your ear; if not you can try another. Shipping of course is on your dime. But this is as good a deal as you will find anywhere.   

fiddleheads.ca/shop/trials.htm

Rowdy

ib_redbeard - Posted - 11/21/2017:  07:25:59

I guess I should clarify my preference for non-Chinese violins. Like someone mentioned here already, a good violin shop will buy only from a good Chinese violin factory. I was under the impression that the Gliga's were not made in China, and to be honest it isn;t that I have anything against Chinese made violins, it is just that I would prefer a violin that everyone knows the street where it is made, whereas a Chinese violin is just made in China somewhere. If someone said that this Chinese luthier made great violins in my price range, I would buy it. Maybe the Gligas are made in China, but I didn't think so.



That site that Cyndy gave me has a bunch of used violins for a good price, so maybe I will consider one of theirs. I know very little about violins so scratches, dents and paint peeling always scares me.

Edited by - ib_redbeard on 11/21/2017 07:26:34

ib_redbeard - Posted - 11/21/2017:  07:31:52

quote:

---

Originally posted by Rowdy

You might want to consider this Canadaian outfit up in Kamloops. Rhianna offers to send you a new or vintage fiddle for a trial period to see if it suits your ear; if not you can try another. Shipping of course is on your dime. But this is as good a deal as you will find anywhere.   

fiddleheads.ca/shop/trials.htm

Rowdy

---

Thanks Rowdy, I have looked at her site before.  What concerns me is that she has a brand of fiddles herself that is made somewhere in China (that doesn't bother me completely) but there are no reviews outside her site.  I have no idea what product I am getting.  Is it a VSO or something better?  There wasn;t any vintage on her site when I looked.  I did not know about the return policy though,  Thanks

tonyelder - Posted - 11/21/2017:  07:35:02

I would not be afraid to recommend a fiddle from yitamusic on eBay.

I bought one at a reasonable price and was very pleased with the instrument. There are a number of threads that have been started here that speak highly of the value. The only negative comments I've heard from some are - the "low" end instruments may need some set up work.

For that reason, I would shop for the T20 or M20 - or better, and stay away from the 19's.

stores.ebay.com/yitamusic-viol...4.c0.m322

It is a gamble. But I considered the odds to be in your favor - over 25,000 transactions with a 99.6% approval rating.

You could get one of their better instruments for well under a $1000, with a bow and case.

Good luck with your hunt.

Mojohand40 - Posted - 11/21/2017:  10:32:45

Sorry I am so late to the discussion...I own/play a Kennedy "Antonio Giuliani" and another Kennedy, the less expensive "Ricard Bunnel G2" I bought used from a forum member.

I also have a Gliga (Gems 1 or 2?...I don't remember.) The Gliga was my first "decent" violin.



I'll give my opinion of these three based on my personal experience. Just my personal opinions .

All three are good, decent instruments. I would recommend all of them.



Now the Antonio Giuliani, cost more then the other two, but it is superior to the other two in a lot of ways. It's my "main" acoustic fiddle, I've played it in various jams, everything from Irish Sessions to Old Time to Blue Grass jams. It's a better fiddle then I'm a fiddler, and so I never really get the urge to upgrade.

In fact, last summer I made it up to Elderly Instruments and played a LOT of the fiddle they had, and none of them made me think I needed to "trade up" from my Antonio Guiliani. Similarly, I tried a bunch of fiddles at a few other places on occasion, and never felt like I was "missing out". I'm not saying it's "the best fiddle in the world", just saying for my abilities, this fiddle sounds good and isn't "holding me back". Personally, I've only tried about two other fiddles (not at Elderly) that made me go "wow!", and think they would be an "upgrade" ...BUT....the price was way up , and more then I wanted to pay.

As for the Ricard Bunnel G2, it's a good instrument. I love it's look. If you get really, really into the details, you will notice it isn't finished quite as nice as my Guiliani. But it's still a really good deal. Now, I bought this one used, and it had been setup by someone other then Kennedy, as it's not the original bridge etc., That may be why it's so nice. It plays well and sounds good. Not as loud (volume wise) as the Guiliani or the Gliga, but a kind of "sweet" sound.

It actually gets played a lot in my kitchen, because it's not quite as loud I think..or who knows...I do tend to grab it when I want to play an acoustic in my house in the mornings before I grab the other ones...I don't know really know why. I do like this one a lot, and that's why I keep it.

The Gliga: Something different, then the other two.. definitely has volume, and tone; but a "warmer" or "darker" tone. It just has a different "nuance" then the others. Personally, for just flat out American Old Time, I think it sounds pretty darn good. It does not have the "range"? or "subtleness" ? or "nuance" of the other two, BUT that may be the way I set it up.

I have Helicores on it, and have replaced the bridge. Whatever it is, it does seem to make stuff with lot's of drones and double stops just "sound good". Maybe "Evenness of tone"? ...I need to put a new bridge and some synthetic core strings on it one day to see what comes out.

As for Kennedy vs Gliga; Kennedy's service and set up are top notch. Gliga can be a bit more of a crap shoot, though I think the odds of getting a good instrument from them, (ordering online) is very good. You just won't get the more personal service of Kennedy.

Hope this helps n some way!!!

ALSO...note that the Antonio Guiliani that they are currently selling discounted (the one you linked to) is the "Antonio Guiliani Etude" model, and not the same as the the one I have.  The Etude is a little cheaper, not sure the difference between the regular and the Etude, but I'm sure Kennedy Violins can tell you. (Maybe just a lower grade of wood, i.e. less flaming, etc.)

Edited by - Mojohand40 on 11/21/2017 10:44:04

ib_redbeard - Posted - 11/21/2017:  10:51:37

That helps a lot Mojohand40. Thank you for that. I have been listening to samples of all three of those violins, including the Fiddlerman Concert Violin, for the past two days. It isn't perfect as the variables are many, but it is all I have. I have started leaning towards the Antonio Guiliani simply because of the reviews of lots of people including yourself. The price also helps as Kennedy has it clearance because of a few blemishes which I can live with. I have been trying to get a hold of Gliga people and no one has returned my emails and that concerns me. Fiddlerman and Kennedy both have. I am going to make a purchase this week I think. I wonder if either place offers Black friday sales on violins! :D

Thanks!

ib_redbeard - Posted - 11/21/2017:  15:07:45

Well, the violin store that I had the chance to go to a while ago still has the violin that I played. It says that it is a Cremona and made in Germany. He also said that it "has Cremona 1716 label in them this on has a name of some guy in it Otto Bruckner 1966, this is factory made instrument. " I can get this, with a carbon fiber bow and a case with Pirastro Piranito steel strings for $400CDN. I did like the way it played, but I don't have much experience. Here are a couple of pics

illinoisfiddler - Posted - 11/21/2017:  21:20:33

Actually, I share your aversion to the Chinese instruments. All the instruments I own are basically German or European, but they are not all super expensive. I have a Bernd Dimbath #56 that is a decent fiddle and was $650 on eBay and needed little to no setup. I understand that there are some really nice sounding Chinese violins, and have owned some myself, but they often need a lot of setup work, don't seem to hold their resale value, and at times still have something "off" in the sound. These days, there are quite a few companies around the world that make decent, affordable instruments for students or beginniers.

joeh4232 - Posted - 11/22/2017:  16:11:27

Cant go wrong with a Gliga. I have two of them both sound great.

ib_redbeard - Posted - 11/22/2017:  16:46:56

Thanks everyone! I think the decision is basically going to come down to price as I'm going to assume all are equal. I was talking to Kennedy violins and they told me to wait until black Friday as there will be a good sale. Fiddler man isn't having one so they say and gliga refuses to answer my emails. I will let everyone know what I bought!

ib_redbeard - Posted - 11/23/2017:  21:53:59

I ended up purchasing an Antonio Giuliani *Etude* Violin Outfit. After the upgrades (carbon fibre bow, shoulder rest, Helicore strings, and shipping) it ended up being $453USD which equaled to around $600 CDN once paypal got their cut. I am even trying to buy that second hand violin as well now. I can always sell it for the same amount or more if I don't like it.

thanks again everyone for their advice, it was all appreciated. But if I had to say what made me pick this violin, it came down to the reviews and customer service and lastly, price. Gliga FINALLY got back to me after numerous emails. I was looking for a sale, so if it took that long to get back to me, I would hate to wait around for a reply if I sent an email about something bad. The fiddlerman has great violins, I truly believe that. But I got a better deal on this violin which is more expensive than what I was looking at his shop. I know that price doesn't always matter though.

Hopefully I do this violin justice.

amwildman - Posted - 11/24/2017:  12:58:13

Hope their remote service is good. Kennedy is my local shop. They are very fiddler friendly. I have played tunes a number of times with 3 of their staff. They all seem like good people. I've bought a few things from them, but never had anything shipped since they are only 2 miles from my house.

I have only played 2 of their instruments. One was a $1000 model and it was just fine. The other was a brand new benchmade violin made by their head luthier. Way out of my price range, and too new to have settled in(takes a month or so at full string tension) but was very nice.