tpquinn - Posted - 10/27/2017:  18:34:45

After some discussion during my lesson this past Wednesday, I'd like to pick up O'Neill's 1001, but a quick look on Amazon pulled up a number of publications with very similar names, a few of them being:

The Dance Music of Ireland: O'Neill's 1001
Mel Bay’s O’Neill’s Music of Ireland: 1850 melodies
O’Neill’s Music if Ireland: Over 1000 fiddle tunes – Miles Krassen

Reading an archived thread on O'Neill's, there seems to be some discussion on versions that are a little busy to read, not notated properly, or whatnot. Does anyone have a preference or suggestion on which one to get without breaking the Bank of Quinn? One or two seem to be a tad pricey. I wouldn't care to get the $69.99 copy when the $29.99 was the one I needed.

Thanks,

p

timfiskwa - Posted - 10/27/2017:  18:50:55

Ryan's Mammoth Collection was published about 40 years before O'Neill's with lots of older tunes for $19.99 from Mel Bay. It's my go to resource for many tunes.

amwildman - Posted - 10/27/2017:  20:45:38

If you want a book specifically, go for either option 1 or option 3. .  I hear the 1850 is mainly just a bunch of duplicate tunes.  I personally own the Krassen version, and it's fine. I don't remember who thought it 'busy' but there's nothing wrong with it at all. I don't see how it could possibly be hard to ignore a few extra bits in the notation.   Besides, who wouldn't want  a book edited by a Irish-music-playing PHD Rabbi?

If you don't really want O'Neill's but want the collection, try this ABC project.  oldmusicproject.com/oneils1.html

As an added note, most of the settings in the book (any of them?) are outdated.  It can be fun to play from the book, but when you get together with others, you'll be the one playing 'odd' versions of the tune.

Edited by - amwildman on 10/27/2017 20:46:09

Fiddler - Posted - 10/27/2017:  20:53:54

Check out the comments on each of the selections on Amazon - especially the negative ones. (I usually do this with any purchase.) Yes, you have to take them with a grain of salt, but they will give you an idea wnat people like/don't like. A few point folks to Ryan's Mammoth Collection (later published as Cole's 1001 Fiddle Tunes) as a better resource - as Tim did.



So, if you are set on getting O'Neill's - go for the MelBay1850 tunes. That seems to be one of the primary sources for folks I know. (There are some duplications, though.) The main problem is that it will not stay open due to the spine. A friend took his copy to a printer, had the spine cut off, punched holes and inserted a spiral spine. Problem solved.  (I have the Krassen edition - and it is fine and has served me well.)



Personally, I like Ryan's (Cole's) since it has the basic melody. And, I have a digitized version so I can print just the tune I am interested in. (I know - display it on a tablet. But, I'm old school.)

Edited by - Fiddler on 10/27/2017 20:56:15

Mobob - Posted - 10/27/2017:  21:48:41

If you want a copy of O'Neill's, keep an eye on Ebay, I got a good used copy for $12.

Lonesome Fiddler - Posted - 10/27/2017:  23:57:56

I've been enjoying the heck out of the Waltons published, Mel Bay distributed O'Neill's 1001 I bought at a violin store, several years ago. Of course, I'm basically an OT fiddler and am a total ignoramus when it comes to what tunes are or aren't accurately transcribed. Nevertheless, I find constant joy in that book. I tend to open the book up at random and just start working on a tune that looks good to my eye. Whether or not I'm playing them in a properly Irish way, the tunes really come to life when I get them under my fingers. I've even gotten compliments from a high school girlfriend who's been happily married to an Irish guy and has been living in Ireland for who knows how long? Twenty years? Thirty years? When I come across a typo, for example when the key signature is obviously wrong, I just compensate for the mistake and continue to fiddle away.

DougD - Posted - 10/28/2017:  04:22:46

I have the "yellow book" (O'Neill's Music of Ireland) as originally published by Dan Michael Collins. I bought it from him. I believe this is a facsimile of the original book, and is what is now sold by Mel Bay (they added their red logo to the front cover). Seems fine to me. I've never seen the Miles Krassen version, but I believe he added his own emendations in some cases. Either of these, plus one from Waltons, are available used at abebooks if you're concerned about your budget. These days I'm more likely to use the online version.

I seem to have misplaced my copy of "Cole's 1000 Fiddle Tunes" which was a mainstay for generations of American fiddlers who could read music. Its predecessor, "Ryan's Mammoth Collection" is available as a download here: violinsheetmusic.org/collections/

One of our members created a companion index which you can find with Google.

All of these are fine sources for interesting tunes, most of which will not be very useful at your local jam session.

carlb - Posted - 10/28/2017:  06:19:38

While I've owned hard copies of both the 1850 (Dan Collins) and 1001 since about 1972, a friend of mine gave me pdf files (not a copy of the books) of both books sometime back in 2006. The notation must have been redone as the visual is different then the hard copies. I have not been able to find a web site from which the files could have obtained.

As an added note, while there is great overlap in the two books, there are tunes in the 1001 that do not appear in the 1850 (e.g. the reel Honeymoon and many jigs, which was the only style of tune that I cross checked after the bought the hard copies).

I know nothing about the legality or illegality of the pdf versions.

DougD - Posted - 10/28/2017:  07:25:05

I just discovered that a facsimile pdf copy of "Dance Music of Ireland" is available at the Petrucci Music Library if you want to check it out   imslp.org/wiki/The_Dance_Music_of_Ireland_(O'Neill%2C_Francis)

tpquinn - Posted - 10/28/2017:  07:44:46

Many thanks for all this. Sounds like I really can't go wrong with whatever I choose.

DeamhanFola - Posted - 10/28/2017:  11:50:11

If you’re interested in Irish traditional music, I’d also suggest the tune books by CCÉ. These are some of the tunes you’d hear most frequently these days (if playing with others is one of your goals), there are accompanying CDs available, and the transcriptions aren’t in weird settings. I believe there are 4 volumes available now 

comhaltas.ie/shop/detail/foinn...volume_1/

gapbob - Posted - 10/28/2017:  19:44:58

1 Dance Music, 1001,
2. 1850
3. Krassen

As was pointed out there are many other good books.

Note that O’Neill et al didn’t understand the modes, so the key signature and sometimes the notes on many of the notated tunes in the 1850 and the dance music of Ireland or incorrect. They thought that thei choice was limited to major or minor, because I think that’s what was being taught in academia. So if you get those books you’ll find that the notes that you’re playing are off.

pete_fiddle - Posted - 10/28/2017:  22:44:25

i reckon if i was serious about trying to play Irish music and wanted to learn from books rather than online resources etc, i would start here

comhaltas.ie/shop/archive/C57/

or try "Ceol Rince na hÉireann", but like Lonesome fiddler in his above post i've been using Walton's for years .....ok if you like the old wax cylinder recordings and enjoy interpreting the dots, not so good for sessions in my experience, but the tunes seem to morph into how others are playing them any way,

Dick Hauser - Posted - 10/29/2017:  06:49:44

Check out used books. Often I find that "used" books are sold in Amazon.com.. Sometimes they are so cheap I purchase one even when I don't need it right then. I think the best prices on used books are Amazon.com. I bought a popular $25 banjo book for about $6. Check out the major books stores online offerings. they sometimes have good deals. Post a "want to buy" in FHO. There are people like myself who are compulsive book purchasers and are willing to sell unused books at very low prices.



Shop around and you may be able to buy all the books.

It is not uncommon to find fiddle books without chords or ornamentation like slurs, rolls, cuts, etc..  The use of the items I mentioned are left to the discretion of the reader.  I still like the versions of tunes in Peter Cooper's "The Complete Irish Fiddler", and it is an instructional not a repertoire book.  It has "full" ornamentation.  

Edited by - Dick Hauser on 10/29/2017 06:58:26

tpquinn - Posted - 10/29/2017:  15:10:12

Actually I did just order a used copy of O'Neill's 1001 on Amazon (along with Folk Music and Dances of Ireland by Breandan Breathnach). I do have Cooper's "The Complete Irish Fiddler" along with the similar books by McNevin and Granitch. And, after placing this order, my wife asked me how many fiddle books I need? I shrugged and said "dunno yet".

Pete, thanks for the reminder about Comhaltas. I'll give those a look also. I think another thread mentioned those for bowing techniques, something I certainly need to work on more.

amwildman - Posted - 10/29/2017:  15:20:56

"my wife asked me how many fiddle books I need?"

Just buy her a nice vacuum for Christmas. That'll keep her off your back for a long time.

DougD - Posted - 10/29/2017:  15:47:41

I see that "Music of Ireland" (the 1850) is also available as a facsimile download from the Petrucci Music Library   imslp.org/wiki/Music_of_Ireland_(O%27Neill,_Francis)

tpquinn - Posted - 11/11/2017:  12:59:27

I like the idea of buying her a vacuum, but she beat me to it a number of months ago. Hmm, perhaps she needs a nice table saw for Christmas.