a_mighty_quail - Posted - 06/04/2017:  21:27:18

Hello! I signed up a few days ago and have been chewing on asking a question.

I'm a beginner who has been playing for about two or three months. My teacher says I'm progressing really quick -- we are working on a few tunes right now, Kitchen Girl and Lament for His Second Wife. My current violin is one of those old early 1900s imports from Austria, and it has been teaching me a lot. Originally, I bought a new Chinese-made instrument through my teacher, but it was not giving me any feedback at all and I was having a hard time with it. I know there is a pretty decent beginner's curve but I'd be lying if I said I was pretty put off by how loud and how bad the instrument sounded to me. She wasn't surprised when I wanted to swap and told me there's a difference between the two, that older violins are a bit more forgiving. The new instrument has improved my playing by 100% and I've returned to being antsy to come home and practice in the evening.

My teacher is really great and told me I can practice with any of the violins she has. So far I haven't taken her up on the offer to actually play any, except at my last lesson. I saw a violin sitting out and I immediately honed in on it. When I put it to my shoulder (whatever the terminology for that is, if there is any) it was like the stars aligned and I had put on a pair of shoes that fit perfectly. I can't really describe it and I don't know if this makes any sense at all, but it felt like an extension of myself and like it was made to fit me perfectly. We got 3/4 of the way through the lesson and I realized I hadn't had to work on my bowing or fingering techniques much at all, everything fit perfectly.

I talked to my teacher about it, who said there's merit in sticking with the violin I have, and I don't disagree. I enjoy learning from it and I'm beginning to get a lot better overall. She also said the decision is ultimately up to me, and if I want to, I can borrow the violin and bring it home after my next lesson. My current violin is around the $300 mark, and the new one is around the $700. At first I wondered if it may have to do with price, but I've tried some of the higher dollar violins, her's included, easily a five-figure instrument, and those were also not as good a fit as the one I tried.

So, I don't know. I'm not really one to make rash decisions and I like to get input from people who have experience with this stuff. I'm more than happy to keep my current violin, I have a good connection with it and I am enjoying it a lot, and on the other hand my mind is saying "If you have an instrument that you are so in tune with, and will be with you forever, why not?"

So in short, is this blind beginner's trust, or did I somehow hit it out of the park already with finding a violin like this? I'd also like to be able to keep working on my learning curve, and be able to pick up most instruments and be able to figure them out -- something I'm worried the $700 violin would take away from me.

Either way I'm going to ask if I can take the violin home after my next lesson. It's been weighting on my mind enough.

Thank you for any input! I'm pretty excited to continue my journey :')

abinigia - Posted - 06/04/2017:  21:32:14

Was it the shoulder rest?

a_mighty_quail - Posted - 06/04/2017:  21:59:34

I honestly didn't think to ask, it only had the chin rest. I have a shorter neck so I haven't felt comfortable using a shoulder rest. Maybe next lesson I should ask about testing chin rest placement 

amwildman - Posted - 06/05/2017:  05:47:11

VAS strikes early and often. Gear matters less than you would think. Focused practice is way more beneficial to your playing than a $400 upgrade. Upgrade if you like, but be wary of getting stuck in that VAS cycle.

ChickenMan - Posted - 06/05/2017:  05:54:18

VAS = violin acquisition syndrome. This is a serious condition that strikes a player without warning. You appear to be in the early stages...

UsuallyPickin - Posted - 06/05/2017:  06:11:46

Well ..... violins , especially the hand made variety are all slightly different. So is each set of ears and each players expectations. When an instrument comes across your path that you feel a "real" connection with it can be magical. Sadly that does not mean that you will have that magic "forever" . As you grow as a player your taste may change as much as your technique will with time and practice. If you are in a position to easily afford a second violin then it is a no harm no foul situation. Having two violins you like to play is a fine thing as, occasionally, you in time, will need to take one or the other in for routine maintenance. Violin bows are the same in that having two is a good idea in that the hair wears and needs replacement. A quality violin bow is often a good follow up purchase when starting out in search of that magical instrument because a good bow makes for easier and better tone production. Soooo yes you can fall into a violin collection quickly and wind up returning to the first one occasionally or everyday...... there are worse habits. R/

Tobus - Posted - 06/05/2017:  06:14:36

First thing you need to do is identify what it was about that violin that made it so natural-feeling to you.  Your description thus far has been very generic. 

By using the right shoulder rest (or none at all), the right chin rest, getting the bridge curvature comfortable, action height comfortable, finding strings that work well for you, and other factors dialed in, you can make almost any violin feel the way you want it to feel.  As for how it sounds, that's another matter altogether.

Lonesome Fiddler - Posted - 06/05/2017:  11:12:36

Mighty Q -- Continue cogitating the situation.  Let your instincts be your guide. I have to say, though, that the chin rest counts for a lot when it comes to comfort.  My three fiddles have three different styles of chin rests.  Each gives me a different degree of comfort.  Try, just try, to find another chin rest identical to your fave!  It doesn't matter where I fasten them.  In an effort to keep my neck and chin happy, they all require different shoulder rest heights.  Thus, I have three shoulder rests, too.

And oh yeah.  In direct contradiction to the familiar saw that it's the player not the fiddle that matters when it comes to tone, I've found that the fiddle itself does make a heck of a difference.  We all can't be Paganini.  Give other fiddles a try.  If another fiddle sounds better to your ears, isn't that enough?  It might also be said that If you never start to like what you are hearing, you'll probably just end up quitting. 

Edited by - Lonesome Fiddler on 06/05/2017 11:23:17

Lynn1 - Posted - 06/05/2017:  13:23:52

Congratulations on starting to play a great instrument! I just started about a 5 years ago and have loved it. By getting help from a teacher was a smart move. Rewarding, but does have some tough spots. Just work through them. Besr wishes for a rewarding experience.

Cyndy - Posted - 06/05/2017:  14:24:22

If you can afford the $700 instrument and you really like the way it feels to play it, then, to me, there's no question. Make it yours. I can't see that there would be any down side to it. If you can't afford it and you really love it, see if there's a way that it can be set aside so you can save up. A few years back I fell in love with a banjo that sold before I could buy it. I'll always be just a little bit sad about that. :)

My good fiddle is in the shop this week--finally getting a new bridge to replace the one that just won't stay flat--and so I'm playing another instrument at the moment. I'm the same fiddler. I sound okay. But, it really isn't the same. There's a lot to be said for having an instrument that just feels right.

giannaviolins - Posted - 06/05/2017:  18:26:59

I've certainly had a fairly large number of violins that seemed to spring into action for me. Balanced, fast response, malleable sound, soft to loud, wide tone color range, and that certain neck and body feel. A surprising number of these are ones I've worked over extensively. The ones I've really liked have been fine master violins or ones I've made. None were $700 violins. On the other hand, really responsive powerful violins are not likely to be great beginner's instruments.

Try some bows out, too. They vary nicely.

Buy what you like. You'll get more eventually, and give away or sell the previous.

fiddlerjoebob - Posted - 06/06/2017:  06:00:41

It can be hard to "let go of the previous."  Hence the detrimental effects of FAS.  

rosinhead - Posted - 06/06/2017:  16:48:21

If you can afford it then go for it.  Having an instrument that inspires you to play more is a great thing.  I feel like things moved ahead faster for me when I made that move and even more so when I bought a quality bow.

tonyelder - Posted - 06/06/2017:  19:08:18

Yes. I have 4 fiddles. They all are nice and play well, but one seems to always make my playing easier and more enjoyable. No rhyme or reason. I'm certain it is just me, and that's perfect.

farmerjones - Posted - 06/07/2017:  06:35:06

Although i set up all my fiddles as close to the same, as i can. I don't think of myself being too hard to please. I've got a fiddle as cheap as eighty bucks. I've got several well over a hundred years old. I like fiddles with mojo. Steve Perry said much about the bow. Don't dismiss it for a second. It can mean the difference between a magic carpet ride and abject slavery.  I've gotten lucky with finding what should've been an expensive bow for a bargain. One should try as many bows as fiddles until one settles on what you like and want in a bow. Then once you've settled on a bow you can use it on every fiddle you test, and get a more objective test. But just "fit" doesn't compute for me.  Fiddle have varying actions, bridges, nut heights, strings, not even covering tone, clarity and/or volume. If one lives in a place where one can test many violins and bows so much the better. In my remote area it took years and years to test a very small sample. If you think about it, there's a tradition of making the most out of mail-order junk, and semi-playable antique and/or homemade instruments.

mswlogo - Posted - 06/07/2017:  09:08:36

The "difference" is probably 90% setup. The fiddle you like might have a tiny bit wider spacing at the nut. Could have lower action by having a lower nut too. And perhaps a dark/warm set of strings.



As far as loudness goes, generally, a good fiddle is loud. But at the start that can be discouraging because it's loud bad tone :) You also have not learned to play a loud instrument softly.

If a fiddle is too "muted" it can impair your learning to control volume. I find you have to protect you ears (or left ear) on any decent fiddle.

At the same time a really powerful instrument can also impair your learning too because you can't control the volume yet and you spend effect to play softly while your trying to focus on something else.

It may very well be worth getting that fiddle if it feels right to you because it is setup the way you like and that can be expensive getting and learning how it should be setup for you.

Just be a little careful you don't like it because it plays really softly (which can be very tempting). Because as you improve a louder fiddle basically has more dynamic range to play with.



Also a good fiddle can be toned down (like with a wire mute, an ear plug, strings, lower bridge etc.). An inherently "muted" (some people call them "dark") fiddle can't later be brought up when you're ready for more dynamics in your playing.

I went through the same thing and didn't realize I had a fantastic fiddle that I thought was too loud. Sold it to a friend that liked it. Couple years later I played it and my jaw dropped it sounded so good. Compared to my currently "muted" fiddle.

I tried to buy another one from the same source but it just wasn't the same.

The fiddle you like might be a good dynamic fiddle but has been toned down a bit.

A "muted" fiddle is more forgiving.

I don't buy the response about the old fiddles being more forgiving. You can get all flavors in any vintage or price range.

Edited by - mswlogo on 06/07/2017 09:23:42

tonyelder - Posted - 06/07/2017:  11:53:31

Well, I believe there is some substance to the idea of "fits like a glove" on a personal level. While in general - I accept the idea that set-ups should aim at being the same for multiple fiddles, I also believe that the execution gets increasingly difficult, depending on how the original build was done. Every fiddle is built different - and although there are standards - (imo) one instrument (or all) may perform better using tweaks that may not work as well on a different instrument. So things like bridge height, string spacing, and action may not always need to be exactly the same for every instrument - especially if you are trying to optimize a particular instrument for tone and/or volume.



I have one fiddle, according to some well know luthiers, that has a neck angle that is too shallow (not correct). Nevertheless, it is the loudest fiddle I own. It is comfortable enough to play, but not my favorite. Neither suggested that I fix the neck angle - just because it did not match the "standard" angle.



And (imo) an ideal instrument set up will have just as much focus (if not more) on the person playing the instrument (style and preferences) than it does on "getting the most" out of the instrument itself.



So, (imo) all fiddles are different, no set-ups are the exactly the same, and no two players are the same. For that reason, I think it is entirely possible for a musician to find an instrument that "fits" them. It may not always fit them, but for now, it inspires and motivates that person to want to play.



And in my experience (FWIW) - making choices for the best bow is even more difficult than they are for fiddles. I still can't settle on which of my bows is "the best" - so I can get rid of the rest. I find myself changing my mind every month or so...  But the choices have now narrowed down to 3 or 4.



But over the last few years, I have come to realize which fiddle is my favorite. Not because of how loud it is (loud enough) and not because it has the idea tone (but I do really like the way it sounds), but I can say that I just like the way it feels in my hands. Too me, I can get more out of that fiddle than the others. I think that is because I feel more relaxed and confident with it. And I feel that I am learning more with that instrument in my hands - than I would with the others.



Having said all that - I also think that if someone were to find themselves "stuck" with a certain bow and fiddle (or any instrument) - they can learn to adjust what they need to do in order to get the most out of the instrument they have. They can make it their own, and it will eventually fit them better than anything they could have shopped for.

Edited by - tonyelder on 06/07/2017 12:04:31

Fiddler - Posted - 06/07/2017:  12:11:55

I've heard these two adages below when I first started playing. I think they both hold true - for more than just fiddles.

"When you find what you like, you have found it. So, stop looking and pay attention to what you have."

"Playing another person's fiddle is like playing with another person's significant other." 

tonyelder - Posted - 06/07/2017:  12:55:32

Reminds me of a story I've told before.

I used to admire a certain fiddle that a friend had. I would always be half-serious when I teased him saying, "I'll buy that thing when you get tired of it". To me it really sounded good when he played it. One night he asked me if I'd like to play it and I jumped at the chance.

Short version: I don't tease him any more. It was totally different than what I expected. He still makes it sound good, but I'm not interested in even playing it again.

I'm not actively looking, but I am always open to the idea of buying another fiddle. But it would really have to grab my attention.

Nothing yet.

Mojohand40 - Posted - 07/01/2017:  14:30:37

I thought I had a fiddle that fit like a glove...but my fingers got stuck in the f holes.

abinigia - Posted - 07/01/2017:  17:16:58

quote:

---

Originally posted by Mojohand40



I thought I had a fiddle that fit like a glove...but my fingers got stuck in the f holes.

 

---

Careful now...

illinoisfiddler - Posted - 08/22/2017:  21:35:41

$700 is not so much money for the price of inspiration if you can afford it. What is the price of quitting? I do think you need an instrument that inspires you to practice, and is comfortable to play. As others have mentioned, different instruments appeal at different times during our development as musicians. This may or may not be a "forever" instrument, however, if it inspires you now, it is priceless!

Edited by - illinoisfiddler on 08/22/2017 21:36:18