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 ARCHIVED TOPIC: Major7 & Locrian arpeggios over any mode scale


Please note this is an archived topic, so it is locked and unable to be replied to. You may, however, start a new topic and refer to this topic with a link: http://www.fiddlehangout.com/archive/42525

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bluesmode - Posted - 10/01/2015:  01:35:53


Here's another 'thing' I've discovered over the years, and I eventually found 2 other people who knew that this worked.... a you-tube guitar teacher and a jazz violinist who lives in town here. I'm gonna use A phrygian as an example.



 



A Bb C D E F G  -  A phrygian scale



E G Bb D  -  Emin7b5 arp (Locrian)



Bb D F A - BbMaj7 arp



F A C E   -  FMaj7 arp



 



the notes contained in these 3 arpeggios have no notes that are not contained in the A phrygian scale, BUT, all 3 arps have different notes from each other, but still all the notes are contained in the A phrygian scale.



 



So what! you might say.... well, I've memorized most of the min7b5 arps and most of the Maj7 arps. and the ones I can't do instantly wouldn't take me long to figure out.  So, if your playing along to a A phrygian background, you not only have the full scale to mess around with, but you can throw in any or all of these 3 arpeggios. The arps give it quite an 'outside' sound.



The beauty of this is that you can use this 'formula' over any mode scale. I made about a 2 page chart with all the modes in the 'common guitar' keys of G D A E C with the corresponding keys for these 3 arpeggios. Just another thing to make the playing more interesting. They can sound pretty wild & outside when thrown in to the mix. I usually do the arps over 2 octaves or portions there of, and I usually start the Maj7 arps on the Maj7 note, not the tonic, but as with anything you can start on any note you want. 



What do you think?


UsuallyPickin - Posted - 10/01/2015:  07:02:09


Curious ...... I usually warm up with scales . I'll take a shot at this in a couple of keys later today. R/

Bruce Clausen - Posted - 10/01/2015:  09:08:19


Good stuff. Most of us learned that as the F major scale. But if you think of A as the tonic, it can be called Phrygian mode.



While you're at it, why not play all seven of the 4-note arpeggios formed from that scale?  Fmaj7, Gm7, Am7, Bbmaj7, C7, Dm7, Em7b5. I do these as a continuous arpeggio exercise, one up one down:  f-a-c-e, f-d-bb-g. a-c-e-g, a-f-d-bb, c-e-g-bb, etc.  Good for the reflexes.  



The "mode" you're using will depend only on the background you're playing (or hearing).  Give it a Bb drone and suddenly the same sequence is "Lydian", etc. etc.


bluesmode - Posted - 10/01/2015:  10:22:40


hello Bruce, yes, I think of A phrygian as an F Maj scale. When I play in any mode I always have the applicable major scale in the back of my mind for reference. And I certainly agree with you about having the correct background for playing the modes.
For instance, it took me a long time to "hear" Lydian. I would play the scale but I just wouldn't 'get it' with no context. Finally I found a couple of Lydian chord progressions, programmed them into my Yamaha QY 100 music sequencer and started working the scale.... and the light went on! what a great feeling it was to finally hear it against a proper background. I think now I could say it's one of my favorite modes.

As for playing all seven of the 4 note arps formed from that scale, I didn't know about this until now, but it makes sense. Still another thing to work on. Does it ever stop! No!

fiddlebut - Posted - 10/02/2015:  21:26:04


I am not quite sure what you are getting at......each scale degree of every scale/mode has harmonized notes to  form chords and arpeggios.....from the basic triad to the 13th note of the scale..


Bruce Clausen - Posted - 10/02/2015:  22:59:47


Right, Henry.  Starting on any scale note you can form a chord or arpeggio using 1-3-5 or 1-3-5-7 or 1-3-5-7-9, etc. till you get to 13ths, at which point each chord contains all the notes of the scale.  Dave's post is concerned with the seventh chords (the four-note chords), and they're the ones to focus on for basic jazz harmony.



Dave:  my favourite Lydian tune is Blue Jay Way by George Harrison.


fiddlebut - Posted - 10/02/2015:  23:37:03


The beauty of this is that you can use this 'formula' over any mode scale.



 



I still don't get what this thread is about, whats the formula then.



 



And arpeggio 1 3 5 7 9 11 13 includes....



 



E G Bb D  -  Emin7b5 arp (Locrian)...........= 5 7 9 11



Bb D F A - BbMaj7 arp...............................= 9 11 13 1



F A C E   -  FMaj7 arp.................................= 13 1 3 5



Are you talking about the function of just three chords.....Vm7b5  and bIIM7  and VIM7....?


bluesmode - Posted - 10/03/2015:  02:17:55


Wow. I'm learning quite a bit here. Yes, Henry, I guess I'm just talking about the function of just those 3 chords you listed! and I'm also learning that there are a lot of people at the hangout who have knowledge of theory way beyond mine! And I humbly defer to your knowledge of theory (not being sarcastic or anything, I'm serious) along with others I've been listening to here at the hangout. I think you have described what I was getting at in the complete picture.

I just found 3 arpeggio's that had common notes with a given mode, and thought they sounded cool when played as a variation to the full scale. my favorite is the min7b5 arp. Thanks for expanding my horizon on this.

bluesmode - Posted - 10/03/2015:  02:40:42


quote:

Originally posted by bluesmode

 

 it took me a long time to "hear" Lydian. I would play the scale but I just wouldn't 'get it' with no context. Finally I found a couple of Lydian chord progressions, programmed them into my Yamaha QY 100 music sequencer and started working the scale.... and the light went on! what a great feeling it was to finally hear it against a proper background. I think now I could say it's one of my favorite modes.



 







Bruce: I knew there was a good Beatles tune that was in Lydian, but I couldn't remember what it was. Thanks for reminding me.... Blue Jay Way! Also, a few years ago, someone tipped me off that several of the songs in "West Side Story"  were in Lydian, so I immediately went to the Library to get the DVD and listened to them.



 



as per the above, the minute or so that it took me to finally 'hear' Lydian when I played it, was seriously a thrill for me. So much so that I composed a "Haiku" about it and posted it in the Haiku thread on another site. Please indulge me.



For anyone interested and doesn't know, a Haiku is a 3 line poem. 1st line has 5 syllables, 2nd line has 7 syllables, 3rd line is back to 5 syllables. Here we go.....



 



I have found you now



Hiding there in the raised fourth



Come Lydian; dance



 


vibratingstring - Posted - 10/03/2015:  06:24:57


The Haiku, useless.



How can one express a thought



in just a few words!



 



Larry



 



Edited by - vibratingstring on 10/03/2015 06:28:24

fiddlebut - Posted - 10/03/2015:  07:39:28


quote:

Originally posted by bluesmode

 

 I'm just talking about the function of just those 3 chords you listed!



 



But, what do you think the function of these chords are....?







I just found 3 arpeggio's that had common notes with a given mode,




 



           But all the arpeggios found in a scale/mode have common notes to the scale/mode.







 


bluesmode - Posted - 10/03/2015:  09:55:11


quote:

Originally posted by chops_butcheR

 
quote:

 

 





 




           But all the arpeggios found in a scale/mode have common notes to the scale/mode.









 Yes, I realize that now. I haven't had a chance to go thru the other arps yet, but I'm guessing that the 3 I listed sound more 'outside' than the others. yes? no?







 


bluesmode - Posted - 10/03/2015:  10:05:18


quote:

Originally posted by vibratingstring

 

The Haiku, useless.




How can one express a thought




in just a few words!




 




Larry




 



Hello Larry: very very good. That one put a big smile on my face! Maybe we will get some more Haiku's, now that I've got the common notes with the arps & scales thing cleared up!



 


Bruce Clausen - Posted - 10/03/2015:  10:24:13


quote:

Originally posted by chops_butcher

 

Are you talking about the function of just three chords.....Vm7b5  and bIIM7  and VIM7....?







 



I think when we speak of "modal" music we're in a different landscape, where harmonic function doesn't really exist. The chords we're talking about here are used for their colourful effect when heard against the background of the mode, rather than for their function, or sense of harmonic direction.  In the jazz field, the modal approach of Miles Davis and John Coltrane began precisely as a reaction against the harmonic complexity of fifties bebop, and this brought their music closer to that of some non-European modal traditions, including blues.  Hope this makes sense.


bluesmode - Posted - 10/03/2015:  13:06:15


Thanks Bruce, this clears things up even further for me, and very interesting! I was gonna say, yes I've done/learnt all these arps. Many years ago I spent some time doing the 4 note arps with the II-V-I progression around the circle of fifths. but the only ones I've tried to work into different modes are the 3 that I mentioned.

I like the 'outside' sound and I wish I knew more about it and could do more of it. Whole tone scales can sound outside, no?
I've tried starting the W/T scale either one semi-tone above or below the tonic, running that for however long and when I land on a note that's included in the mode scale, just flow into that scale, and carry on with whatever.

YUP, I know I'm mode crazy. I just find that you can play along easily with many different styles of 'Pop' music including Folk, Country, blues, rock etc. I guess playing the modes may not be the best for a lot of the jazz styles, but I think I can cover more ground with modes.

vibratingstring - Posted - 10/03/2015:  15:54:32


Dave,



Not into Haiku.



Sorry to disappoint you.



Seems silly to me.



Larry



 



 


bluesmode - Posted - 10/03/2015:  21:48:25


All right, the gauntlet has been thrown down! who's with me that Haiku's are Cool? and not easy to write a good one. Some say they are supposed to evoke a fleeting moment or mood. Here are 3 more I put together. Not saying they're good, but I don't think they're bad either. What do you think?



 



Gypsy violin



The stark beauty of sorrow



Dark and ominus



 



Cascading minors



Melancholy violin



Strings whisper; and kiss



 



Eighteen ninety three



In old Berlin it was made



Cracks repaired; sings sweetly



 



Who's up for giving it a try? Post it here. remember 5 - 7 - 5 syllables. 


vibratingstring - Posted - 10/04/2015:  09:36:43


Dave,



 



Pointless to convince



No one will join this folly.



Mark my words, you'll see.



 



Larry



 


pete_fiddle - Posted - 10/04/2015:  10:47:56


The dorian mode 



Is at the epicenter



Of all of the modes


bluesmode - Posted - 10/04/2015:  11:06:46


Ok great, thanks Pete! but forget Haiku's for the moment and please explain about dorian in plain English for me. It sounds very interesting and prolly something I should know. Thanks.



 



.... I may just take my Haiku's and go to another thread topic! (where I'll get more exposure) laugh


vibratingstring - Posted - 10/04/2015:  20:48:14


>>>>>.... I may just take my Haiku's and go to another thread topic! (where I'll get more exposure) 



 



That was no Haiku.



This, however, is well formed,



though pointless, I say.



 



Larry



 


vibratingstring - Posted - 10/04/2015:  20:50:24


 



Up late Sunday night.



Thinking on the day ahead,



I am distracted.


bluesmode - Posted - 10/04/2015:  21:56:06


quote:

Originally posted by vibratingstring

 

>>>>>.... I may just take my Haiku's and go to another thread topic! (where I'll get more exposure) 




 




That was no Haiku.




This, however, is well formed,




though pointless, I say.




 




Larry




 







Say: What is the point



Posting a pointless Haiku



It points back to you


vibratingstring - Posted - 10/05/2015:  09:01:33


 



It is you, my friend.



You interpret my wording



It is not my fault.



 



Larry



 



 



 


bluesmode - Posted - 10/05/2015:  13:11:54


Halooo Petefiddle: are you out there looking in? don't want to pester you, but when you get a chance, I'm really interested in 'dorian being the epicenter of all the modes' and would sure like to know what you mean.

Thanks again, Dave.

vibratingstring - Posted - 10/06/2015:  06:03:16


 



Huiku-phoria.



​Thinking in 5-7-5



Exasperating!



 


bluesmode - Posted - 10/06/2015:  21:57:12


You spelled Haiku wrong
Join Haiku Anonymous
Get the help you need

So Larry... for a guy who has said haiku's are "pointless - folly - silly - useless" you sure seem to be posting a lot of them !?!?
I'm not really into Haiku's as a means of conversation. I think a Haiku should stand on it's own. and yes, I think they have the potential to be wonderful, beautiful, deep, thought provoking, moving, humorous (not frivolous) although I think it's possible to make good poetry out of frivolity) I take my Haiku's seriously, even the funny ones.

Now then, if I did start a Haiku thread on another topic than 'music theory', would you promise to use your 5 - 7 - 5 talent for good and not for evil? Or, maybe you're right.... "No one will join this folly, Mark my words, you'll see.

vibratingstring - Posted - 10/08/2015:  08:12:28


 



Dying a slow death,



My Haiku days are numbered.



Alas, I succumb..



 


theimprovingmusician - Posted - 10/08/2015:  14:37:32


quote:

Originally posted by Bruce Clausen

I think when we speak of "modal" music we're in a different landscape, where harmonic function doesn't really exist. The chords we're talking about here are used for their colourful effect when heard against the background of the mode, rather than for their function, or sense of harmonic direction.  In the jazz field, the modal approach of Miles Davis and John Coltrane began precisely as a reaction against the harmonic complexity of fifties bebop, and this brought their music closer to that of some non-European modal traditions, including blues.  Hope this makes sense.







Well, if I'm understanding what you're saying, I might have to disagree with you on this one. Each of the modes does, indeed, have its own set of harmonic functions. We can think of the modes as scales, but we also can think of them as their own individual TONALITIES with a resting tone, or tonal center.



I made some videos to explain these concepts to some of my students. Perhaps you'll find them of interest in relation to this topic. The latter briefly discusses each of the tonalities, and its harmonic functions. 



Pardon me if I misunderstood you. 




VIDEO: What is a Tonality?
(click to view)


VIDEO: The Tonalities Explained
(click to view)

fujers - Posted - 10/08/2015:  14:47:47


Do you understand this. I do. Very good post

Humbled by this instrument - Posted - 10/08/2015:  19:56:09


Why talk about modes,



The Grapes of Wrath or the Joads,



Or runcible roads....


bluesmode - Posted - 10/08/2015:  21:12:36


Hello T.I.M. Thank you very much for that very interesting post. I particularly enjoyed hearing the Tonal sequences. I'm thinking a person could memorize them and throw them in as riffs, along with whatever else your doing in a mode. You may think that would be a bit crass in comparison to the depth of what you're talking about, but hey, I'll take anything I can get, to throw into my bag of tricks.
I also very much enjoyed hearing the difference between Aeolian and harmonic minor side by side. The more I learn, the more I find out how much I don't know!
Thanks again
Dave.

bluesmode - Posted - 10/08/2015:  21:14:58


quote:

Originally posted by Humbled by this instrument

 

Why talk about modes,




The Grapes of Wrath or the Joads,




Or runcible roads....







Think of modes and muse



Flitting moths around the flame



The endless winding sounds


pete_fiddle - Posted - 10/08/2015:  21:42:10


Very neatly explained T.I.M thanks for posting



Dave: i have been using the Dorian mode as the center of my "modal mind map" of the fiddle fingerboard,simply because of its symmetry, and the fact that the other "mode patterns" (through 1 octave,on adjacent strings,1st finger on root) seem to radiate out from it,if i take them around a cycle of  4ths / 5ths



​Eg:  lydian(4), Ionian(1), Mixolidian(5), Dorian(2), Aolian(6), Phrygian(3), Locrian(7)



interesting too(to me), is that this seems to correspond to the rainbow spectrum R,O,Y,G,B.I,V, green being the center and most restful of the colours IMO (appologies for getting weird on the subject) 



​i think the info T.I.M provides in his vids might neatly dovetail into my "modal mind map" of the fingerboard



cheers pete



​ps: dont think this post will make any sense to anyone but me :o)


Humbled by this instrument - Posted - 10/08/2015:  22:33:06


quote:

Originally posted by bluesmode

 
quote:


Originally posted by Humbled by this instrument

 


Why talk about modes,




The Grapes of Wrath or the Joads,




Or runcible roads....








Think of modes and muse




Flitting moths around the flame




The endless winding sounds







I rhymed a haiku



(Which I'd been told not to do)



Got an "F" it's true.



 



This haiku is one...



This haiku is one of man--



Is one of many.



 



The Lydian mode



Overused is overload.



Careful!  Might explode!



 



 


pete_fiddle - Posted - 10/08/2015:  22:48:10


Through the Haiku noise



Comes a reasonable voice



Of insanity


bluesmode - Posted - 10/08/2015:  23:59:53


quote:

Originally posted by pete_fiddle

 (appologies for getting weird on the subject) 










Pete; it couldn't be any weirder than some of these Haiku's, yes?  But I'm afraid that I can only follow your mind map of the Modes on some intuitive level. Do you mean going around the circle of fifths and changing the mode for every fifth or fourth. I'm not sure I grok this either, but it do sound interesting.



Edited by - bluesmode on 10/09/2015 00:14:00

bluesmode - Posted - 10/09/2015:  00:12:26


quote:

Originally posted by Humbled by this instrument

 
quote:


Originally posted by bluesmode

 


quote:


Originally posted by Humbled by this instrument

 






Think of modes and muse




Flitting moths around the flame




The endless winding sounds




 




 




This haiku is one...




This haiku is one of man--




Is one of many.




 




 




 







first off, the first line of my haiku needs a semi-colon, ie: Think of modes; and muse



secondly, as OP of this thread and starter of these Haiku's, I simply can not accept the above as a valid Haiku. Do we need to get an adjudicator in here? I hope this doesn't come to fisticuffs.


Humbled by this instrument - Posted - 10/09/2015:  06:19:03


quote:

Originally posted by bluesmode

 
quote:


Originally posted by Humbled by this instrument

 


quote:


Originally posted by bluesmode

 


quote:


Originally posted by Humbled by this instrument

 






Think of modes and muse




Flitting moths around the flame




The endless winding sounds





 




 




This haiku is one...




This haiku is one of man--




Is one of many.




 




 




 








first off, the first line of my haiku needs a semi-colon, ie: Think of modes; and muse




secondly, as OP of this thread and starter of these Haiku's, I simply can not accept the above as a valid Haiku. Do we need to get an adjudicator in here? I hope this doesn't come to fisticuffs.







Weeeelll now, Dave Snow,



Fisticuffs, fisticuffs, certainly we're better;



We can duel in the sun or when the weather's wetter,



We can duel on the plains, in the hills, or at sea,



Any place at all; no "adjitator" doth we nee'.



 



An old fashioned donnybrook, outside of the pub?



Or chairs flying o'er a haiku--now there's the rub!



Yet gentlemen duel, and as gentlemen we diddle--



Let's back to back!  A few steps and then--fiddle!



 



I propound the usual international rules in such matters.  1) Each person gets back to back, carrying fiddle in right hand, bow in left.  2)  As both seconds nod, each man proceeds ten paces, turns, and begins pacing towards his opponent, sawing, screeching, singing, bowing, pattern bowing, ghosting (but why?), Nashville shuffling, etc. until someone decries that he can't take it anymore.  



We'll settle once and for all just what is a haiku....



Oh (I see you're a fellow Cannuck): We'll settle once and for all just what is a haiku, eh.



Humbled



P.S.  I don't think Lydian modes or any related arpeggios are allowed under international law.  


bluesmode - Posted - 10/09/2015:  13:58:08


excellent poem, and a very good post, many chuckles with his one! I'm impressed. A tip of the hat to you, Curt!



Edited by - bluesmode on 10/09/2015 14:03:31

Bruce Clausen - Posted - 10/10/2015:  09:56:03


quote:

Originally posted by theimprovingmusician


Well, if I'm understanding what you're saying, I might have to disagree with you on this one. Each of the modes does, indeed, have its own set of harmonic functions. We can think of the modes as scales, but we also can think of them as their own individual TONALITIES with a resting tone, or tonal center. 

Pardon me if I misunderstood you. 







Good point, with maybe just a slight misunderstanding.  Certainly when you play in any of the modes of a scale, you have a tonic, and you hear each scale tone in relation to that note.  But we were talking about the harmonic function of individual chords in chord progressions.  Most modal traditions (Indian, Persian, Arabic, etc.) have no use for chords or harmony-- it's all about melodic phrases heard against the background of the mode itself.  In modal jazz, and also flamenco, chords are used in background vamps, but those vamps are usually spelling out the mode rather than moving through a real progression.  (For example, the common vamp Am7-Bm7-Cmaj7-Bm7 spells out the dorian mode.)  No tension and release, no modulation.  That's what was meant by function.  Hope this makes sense.



Great thread!  Music theory and literary treasures in one handy location.  Thanks to all.



Edited by - Bruce Clausen on 10/10/2015 09:57:51

bluesmode - Posted - 10/10/2015:  21:41:07


Ok, what do y'all think of this? several years ago I learned about 5 different patterns for ascending and descending triads, from an older book called Patterns For Jazz. As with a lot of things I think them out modal. Say I'm in E dorian. I do these triad patterns while visualizing the D Maj scale on the finger board. Or if A aeolian, I'm visualizing the C Maj scale as I do the patterns. btw, I like these patterns, as they can sound pretty jazzy / swingy, (if you put a swing on them as opposed to playing them straight) and depending on where you start and stop the pattern. Also you can start ascending in one pattern, then switch to another pattern as you ascend, and same for descending of course.



I guess my point is, It seems to me just easier to visualize the Major scale of the mode yer in, and let your ear keep you in that mode.



Edited by - bluesmode on 10/10/2015 21:46:25

bluesmode - Posted - 10/10/2015:  22:00:56


The Hot Club playing



a Parisian Melody



Stephan casts his spell



 



now depending on whether Parisian is 3 syllables or 4... I can do a work around.



 



The Hot Club plays a



Parisian Melody



Stephan casts his spell


Humbled by this instrument - Posted - 10/10/2015:  23:02:06


quote:

Originally posted by bluesmode

 

 




I guess my point is, It seems to me just easier to visualize the Major scale of the mode yer in, and let your ear keep you in that mode.







Yep.


fiddlebut - Posted - 10/11/2015:  23:40:29


quote:

Originally posted by bluesmode

 




 




the notes contained in these 3 arpeggios have no notes that are not contained in the A phrygian scale,



BUT, all 3 arps have different notes from each other, but still all the notes are contained in the A phrygian scale.




 




 







Ok, I am still trying to understand what this about.....



is the formula on the 7th arps  the II , V, and VI chords...?



Then that must apply to all scales and modes....?



All arps have notes contained in the scale...?



These 3 arps have notes in common with each other...?



All the 7th arps in the scale have notes in common with the tonic chord..?


bluesmode - Posted - 10/12/2015:  02:15:14


Hi Henry: I'm not sure I can answer your questions. I think the best I can do is give you more examples, and you can confirm the formula? But first I have to complicate things just a bit. To make a long story shorter, I don't think in min7b5 (Locrian arps), i think in minor 6th arps. which are just inversions of each other. So when I do this little list, I've got my reference pages written out with minor 6th arps. I think of and play them as minor 6 arps ( I, b3, 5, 6)



G mixo  =  Cmaj scale = Dmin6 arp = Fmaj7 arp = Cmaj7 arp



​Dmixo = G maj scale = Amin6 arp = Cmaj7 arp = Gmaj7 arp



​G dorian = F maj scale = Gmin6 arp = Bbmaj7 arp = Fmaj7 arp



​D dorian = Cmaj scale = Dm6 arp = Fmaj7 arp = Cmaj7 arp



​So all I can say is just to reiterate what I said before. These 3 arps have some common notes with each other and some different notes with each other, but they ALL have notes that are contained in the major scale of the mode listed. So I guess what that boils down to, is when I play these arps in a mode, I hit some of the notes contained in the major scale of the mode and leave some the notes out of the major scale of the mode.... just a way of 'mixing up' the notes in the major scale of the mode....and you can't hit a wrong note. I think they sound best played fast over a couple of octaves or so to create an 'outside' feeling.



So maybe everything you said in your post is correct, and maybe you can confirm that thru the above examples? I just re-read your post, and what you say sounds correct, as far as I can tell.



Or anyone else feels like wading thru this......



It's about 3 am here and gotta take my sleep meds.


pete_fiddle - Posted - 10/12/2015:  02:55:56


looks like your basically playing 1,4,5 (4 note) arpeggio's over one of the modes of the parent Major scale, substituting the 5 chord for the 7 chord, and instead of calling the 7 chord m7b5, you are calling it a min6 ?


bluesmode - Posted - 10/12/2015:  21:53:59


Hello Pete, thanks for the response. I really don't (can't) think this out the way you describe it with chords. But I can give a further explanation of the min6 arps. many many years ago I got going  on the min6 arps from blues stuff from Jamey Aebersold. I thought they sounded really cool so I learned them & memorized them.....then a few years ago I came across a U-tube guitar teacher who taught all sorts of stuff, including modal stuff (great player btw) anyways, he had a teaching vid called something like "Locrian arpeggios over any mode" and he explained what he was talking about and gave a few examples in a few different modes. I didn't take me too long to realize that these Locrian arps were an inversion of minor6 arps. I said to myself, Yahoo, I already know these arps and now I have a really cool application for them. Then that lead in to the Maj7 arps. I realized that they also had common notes with the modes 'Parent major scale" so I emailed him about this, and he said Yes, The Major7 arps work on the same principal as the Locrian arps ( the common notes thing) He offered for sale, play along backgrounds for the church modes (they weren't all that much, around 13 bucks or so, and they were all very well done.... modern modal backgrounds. so I started working this stuff thru with them and even put some of my own backgrounds into  my music sequencer. 



So I think maybe we've gone as far as we can with this thread. I would just like to say, If anyone out there loves the sounds of the modes as much as I do, and has the capability to access or create modal backgrounds, I'd recommend giving this a try. I don't think you will be disappointed, and I do think it's well worth the work. For me, it seemed to open up a whole nuther dimension to playing them modes.



 


Humbled by this instrument - Posted - 10/15/2015:  09:10:28


Dave, I tip my hat to those of you who can improvise using something like Locrian arpeggios and get it to sound good, truly.  I remember taking a few jazz theory courses at Humboldt State decades ago with my roommates/band mates.  Our instructor told us we could, for instance, conceivably use an E diminished scale over an A7 chord (IIRC) and so on.  At the ensuing in-class jams we all grabbed guitars and began hitting all these diminished scales over blues progressions, thinking we were pretty cool.  Yet at the next barbecue at which friends would get together and play music I heard:



"Did you guys forget to tune...or play?"  coming from my lovely girlfriend (now wife).  "Whatever it is you guys are trying to do...don't!"  



We looked at each other, shrugged shoulders.  Back to the pentatonic blues scales and Mixylydian mode.  



Curt


fujers - Posted - 10/15/2015:  17:47:17


If I may interject something here. Chords changes are chord changes. If you were to play any mode you want over the chord change it would fit. But depending on what chords you use you will have to change your patterns.



Lets say I was in the key of C. Now over the C chord I can or you can play any mode you want to. It's just when you change the chord does the mode need to change. This is when you switch to regular structure playing your major or minor scales to suit the tune.



Now playing in major or minor scales will suit your playing for a while you will ultimately have to switch back to model playing to get the right effect.



Listen to this although I am just playing in the Key Am I use Dorian as my main basis point and Am as my root.



Staying close to the root will allow you play just about anything you want to.....where as you get further away from the root makes thing harder to play. You always stay close to your tonal center. Jerry



Edited by - fujers on 10/15/2015 17:59:12



Amin Shuffle

   

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