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 ARCHIVED TOPIC: pentatonic patterns


Please note this is an archived topic, so it is locked and unable to be replied to. You may, however, start a new topic and refer to this topic with a link: http://www.fiddlehangout.com/archive/40928

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toolmaker59 - Posted - 03/15/2015:  11:00:03


can anybody tell me a good pattern to play in a G C and D chord progression


UsuallyPickin - Posted - 03/15/2015:  12:51:51


Generally a question like this will get an answer that brings more questions. Look up blues scales at Wikipedia. Then Google blues scales for fiddle. Play the G scale over the G chord the C scale over the C chord and the D scale over the D chord....... you can play a G pentatonic, see Wikipedia for Pentatonic scale .... over all three chords when playing in the key of G but it will get pretty boring to your ear quickly..... luck ... R/



Edited by - UsuallyPickin on 03/15/2015 12:52:56

fiddlebut - Posted - 03/15/2015:  13:01:29


The Major pentatonic follows this structure...........



Tone, Tone, Tone and half, Tone, Tone and half.



The Minor pentatonic is an inversion of the above over the same tonic.....



Tone, Tone and half, tone, tone, tone and half, tone.....



  


JHDuncan - Posted - 03/16/2015:  06:54:13


For the Key of G, try the notes G, A, B, D, E and G. 



For a fun bluesy pattern, try the notes, G, Bb, C, D, F and G. 


phiddlepicker - Posted - 03/16/2015:  09:31:17


youtu.be/1zT_SZAfgl8

This video is pretty easy to use for major pentatonics.

phiddlepicker - Posted - 03/16/2015:  09:36:27


youtu.be/AoQVo14VNbM

Same instructor demonstrating the G Blues scale.

phiddlepicker - Posted - 03/16/2015:  09:37:14


Sorry I didn't provide active links, but my puter at work won't allow me to do so.

chas5strings - Posted - 03/16/2015:  12:44:29


Henry do you actually play from scales and patterns? I just play the notes that are in my head. I couldn't care less if it was a sextatonic dorian grey over a diminished 7th flattened 9th with a major 12th resolving on a transient 11th which briefly takes me into the subdominant of the pedal 5th.



You do some good stuff (I've utubed you). You have to fly by the seat of yer pants?


fiddlebut - Posted - 03/16/2015:  21:44:00


quote:

Originally posted by chas5strings

 

Henry do you actually play from scales and patterns?







 



Are you saying you never learnt to play scales, modes and arpeggios.......??



Well , I did, and those are the notes in my head   !?



And I fly be the seat of my pants every time I play, this what I like about playing music...!?



 


fujers - Posted - 03/16/2015:  22:03:53


Tell me Henry, What do your hear? Do you hear the trains just buzzing through the night?

Do you hear the birds chirping? Do you hear anything that resembles this

You talk a big game. Now lets see how you play. Post something.....anything

We'll see. Jerry

phiddlepicker - Posted - 03/17/2015:  04:00:44


easy there superman...yer scaring the children

fiddlepogo - Posted - 03/17/2015:  09:34:30


The opening guitar riff to the Rolling Stones' "My Girl" is a pentatonic pattern- in fact the whole pentatonic scale.  The first time, the lick is played over the I chord- IF they were playing it in the key of G, that would be the G chord.   Then, it shifts and is played over the IV chord (what would be the C chord if they were playing in the key of G).


Lee M - Posted - 03/17/2015:  12:39:42


There is some nice stuff about Henry on youtube and on his facebook page.. He is a good fiddler..IMO..



He doesn't need to post here, Jerry...although it would be nice if he did.



 


fiddlebut - Posted - 03/17/2015:  13:00:56


quote:

Originally posted by chas5strings

 

I couldn't care less if it was a sextatonic dorian grey over a diminished 7th flattened 9th with a major 12th resolving on a transient 11th which briefly takes me into the subdominant of the pedal 5th.




 







WOW, this would be amazing to hear you play that, please post something soon.....!!


Lee M - Posted - 03/17/2015:  13:17:34


quote:

Originally posted by phiddlepicker

 

youtu.be/AoQVo14VNbM



Same instructor demonstrating the G Blues scale.







 





youtu.be/AoQVo14VNbM



Here it is 'activated'... when you reply to a post you see a smiley face above... just to the right of that is a little blue thingy.. Click on that and you can put your link there and it will be activated. Is should have nothing to do with your computer.. it is the Hangout that allows it (I think)...



 


fiddlebut - Posted - 03/17/2015:  13:22:14


quote:

Originally posted by fujers






You talk a big game. Now lets see how you play. Post something.....anything



We'll see. Jerry


 




Of course I talk 'big game' because I know what I am talking about.....!?



I know this stuff inside out, what do you know, you don't seem to know anything..



Give us some facts, instead of...'play long bows and practice your scales'  thats all you talk about..!? 



I have posted plenty examples of how I play, are you so forgetful you can't remember anything...



I teach every day, do you think I have got time to record stuff just for you...!?



Last night we did a St Patrick's Day gig at the same venue for the past three years. We don't rehearse or use charts and we have'nt played this stuff since last year...!! We had a great time and so did the audience...!!



And you ask me ''what do I hear''   pppfffttt to you Jerry Holmes....( SUPERMAN ) HA HA



 



 



 


fiddlebut - Posted - 03/17/2015:  14:16:15


quote:

Originally posted by chas5strings

 

I just play the notes that are in my head.







 



If said that to my students when they ask me.......''how did you just play that''...?



I don't think they would be coming back.....??


Lee M - Posted - 03/17/2015:  14:27:35


I'm not sure if this is on topic or not, but the term "Notes that are in my head" makes me recall how I learned to play the fiddle.. Since I didn't know how a tune 'should have been played' I tried various ways to see what worked .. In doing so, my brain developed the ability to come up with several ways to play each tune..I suspect that many musicians who are good at improvising may have learned via trial and error...like I did...It should be called 'trial and trial'.. There is no error.


fujers - Posted - 03/17/2015:  17:27:20


Henry, I would prefer that you just not post anything. I've already heard you and that was enough for a thousand lifetimes.

No I don't know nothing absolutely nothing...shoot I'm just a dumb ole country boy. But I know how to fiddle...and you don't. Jerry

banjotech - Posted - 03/17/2015:  18:55:00


Is there a button on this forum that a you can click to block members that are obviously drunk or high?


fujers - Posted - 03/17/2015:  19:01:31


Banjotech, Don't mind it we're just talking. Just talking music

Lee M - Posted - 03/17/2015:  19:04:48


Banjotech,, If we did that, ALL of us would be off line..wink


phiddlepicker - Posted - 03/17/2015:  19:07:58


quote:

Originally posted by banjotech

 

Is there a button on this forum that a you can click to block members that are obviously drunk or high?







I'm not as think as you drunk I am.


banjotech - Posted - 03/17/2015:  19:28:10


I was just asking because I didn't want to be blocked    cheeky


fujers - Posted - 03/17/2015:  19:28:26


Well would you rather have the truth or not the thruth....me I prefer the thruth

fujers - Posted - 03/17/2015:  19:30:23


You won't be blocked if you don't het to raudy or cuss. Trust me I know

phiddlepicker - Posted - 03/17/2015:  20:49:30


Oi!laugh




super

   

fiddlepogo - Posted - 03/17/2015:  20:56:12


I guess that proves Superman can be kilt after all!!!


phiddlepicker - Posted - 03/17/2015:  21:12:08


Indeed

 


fiddlebut - Posted - 03/17/2015:  21:21:00


quote:

Originally posted by Lee Mysliwiec

 

There is some nice stuff about Henry on youtube and on his facebook page.. He is a good fiddler..IMO..




He doesn't need to post here, Jerry...although it would be nice if he did.




 







Thanks for the compliment, but it is not nesseccary...



Superman has spoken.......''he knows how to play fiddle, I don't''


fujers - Posted - 03/17/2015:  21:50:58


Well lets see Henry, I have listened to your post and I'm not going to say anything good or bad about them.

But it seems to me that you need to woodshed more. You said you have been playing some 43 or 44 years. Does it show? No

Know I would think after playing that many years you would have learned more....but you didn't....who's fault is that...yours

Superman, I ain't no Superman and I never will be. A good fiddler....well yes I am. I know what I'm talking about to

Remember learn from people in the know....not from those who are not. Jerry





chas5strings - Posted - 03/18/2015:  00:05:40


quote:

Originally posted by fujers

 

Well lets see Henry, I have listened to your post and I'm not going to say anything good or bad about them.



But it seems to me that you need to woodshed more. You said you have been playing some 43 or 44 years. Does it show? No



Know I would think after playing that many years you would have learned more....but you didn't....who's fault is that...yours



Superman, I ain't no Superman and I never will be. A good fiddler....well yes I am. I know what I'm talking about to



Remember learn from people in the know....not from those who are not. Jerry


 







Completely out of order fujers!!!!!


fiddlebut - Posted - 03/18/2015:  01:10:28


quote:

Originally posted by fujers

 





Remember learn from people in the know....





 







Yes..!? That's what we are all here for..!?



Well how about you give me some 'constructive' criticism...instead of....'I don't know how to play fiddle'...



Or...''you need to woodshed more''..Or....''   Do you hear the trains just buzzing through the night''



Or.....''Do you hear the birds chirping? Do you hear anything that resembles this''



What is that..? I tell you what it is....empty, meaningless crap...!!



 



 



 



 


fiddlebut - Posted - 03/18/2015:  01:26:20


quote:

Originally posted by Lee Mysliwiec

 

my brain developed the ability to come up with several ways to play each tune..I suspect that many musicians who are good at improvising may have learned via trial and error...like I did...It should be called 'trial and trial'.. There is no error.







 



I do this every time, I say every time I play fiddle at a gig.....!!



Every song I accompany I play it differently every time, I say every time....!!



I like to experiment every time I play on the stage, I say every time...!!



Ya, I like to ''get out of my comfort zone''...''I say every time I play on the stage''..



So by doing that one will expect to mess up some time...??



Who cares..? I don't..! That's why I posted my videos...!?



Jerry, you should try that instead of relying on your licks, because that's what your playing sounds like to me....just a bunch of tired old licks...



 



 



 


boxbow - Posted - 03/18/2015:  06:01:52


quote:

Originally posted by Lee Mysliwiec

 

I'm not sure if this is on topic or not, but the term "Notes that are in my head" makes me recall how I learned to play the fiddle.. Since I didn't know how a tune 'should have been played' I tried various ways to see what worked .. In doing so, my brain developed the ability to come up with several ways to play each tune..I suspect that many musicians who are good at improvising may have learned via trial and error...like I did...It should be called 'trial and trial'.. There is no error.







This is where the OP comes in.  I agree totally that playing the notes in my head is the mechanism involved.



Unless I'm practicing.  Then a little theory, as in the OP's question, is a right and useful tool and it goes a long way.  It helps me differentiate between the notes in my head this time and the notes in my head last time and the notes in my head next time.



I, unlike the rest of you, am not a great fiddler.  Just purty good.  I'm not Superman, more like Moderateperson.  I occasionally have to think about what I'm doing.  I'm trying to stop thinking altogether, but it comes hard, you know? 



Look out, boys, it's raining Kryptonite!


phiddlepicker - Posted - 03/18/2015:  06:38:40


"I, unlike the rest of you, am not a great fiddler. Just purty good"



I'm not great either....I play for the joy of playing. If someone else enjoys hearing it, more the better.  smiley


fiddlepogo - Posted - 03/18/2015:  09:19:12


quote:

Originally posted by Henry

 
quote:


Originally posted by chas5strings

 


I just play the notes that are in my head.








 




If said that to my students when they ask me.......''how did you just play that''...?




I don't think they would be coming back.....??







My first reaction is to agree with you.   A lot of times here when there have been questions about bowing, a number of people say "Just play it!"... and somehow that just doesn't seem to be a very satisfying answer.   It seems like you have to give them SOMETHING more concrete, more specific... a bowing pattern to practice, or in your case, a scale.



ON THE OTHER HAND....



Anybody I know who is a good musician is "playing the notes in their head".



You can learn all the techniques in the world, and if you don't have that, what have you got?  How can you trigger that?



When I was a teenager, I learned pentatonic scales on guitar, but I just COULD NOT make them into music.   Then I learned fiddle, and it was obvious to me that in the process of learning tunes, I was learning scales as well.  I tried at times to improvise with them, but it just wasn't there.  Fingers were moving, but music was not happening.



Somewhere later along the line, something happened.... and the next time I got an electric... somehow it came together.... I could noodle on the scales, and it became music..... when I got a fiddle again.... lo and behold, I could improvise on the fiddle- not as freely or extensively as on guitar, but it was music.



If there was some way to BOTTLE what happened, someone could make a lot of money!  But I'm not sure there is....


fiddlepogo - Posted - 03/18/2015:  10:25:34


Also.... something to keep in perspective.   Most music is played for non-musicians.   They really aren't that knowledgeable or critical.... as long as it ain't scratchy and you're playing in tune.   Both Henry and Jerry play stuff that does just fine on that account.  But what the non-musicians are REALLY waiting for- is for your break to be over so they can hear the singer sing the next verse!  And they don't care whether you're getting risky and experimental, or playing tried and true stuff!



That's not just my idea: there was a video special a few years back on Les Paul after he passed. I think it can still be found online somewhere.  It mentioned that at some point he realized that all his fantastic guitar playing was going WAY over the heads of the general public, and all they REALLY wanted wanted was a good singer singing memorable words, to a catchy melody!



Now.... playing for musicians.... that's different.  They can be more critical.  To be a musicians' musician is very high praise.  So far, I like most of what I've heard Jerry and Henry play.



So far.... Charles and phiddlepicker..... I'm thinking they're probably pretty good  (or they wouldn't have so many strings!), but I don't know, I can only guess....   someday, maybe???


alaskafiddler - Posted - 03/18/2015:  13:04:42


Seems like someone was working on diminished fifths, which doesn't have much use in a discussion of pentatonic patterns.

 


fiddlebut - Posted - 03/18/2015:  13:26:52


quote:

Originally posted by fiddlepogo

 



ON THE OTHER HAND....



 






 



The important thing to remember is.........Musicians practice playing musical notes.



They can NOT stop the notes from being in their heads....!?



The more we practice the more notes are in our heads..!?



This happens to every musician...!?



Whether they practice Bach or they are just noodling..



But in neither case do we have an entire page of notes in the head...



No, we only have next note after the one we just played......


fiddlebut - Posted - 03/18/2015:  13:40:14


quote:

Originally posted by fiddlepogo

 

 And they don't care whether you're getting risky and experimental, or playing tried and true stuff!




 







 



Also, I don't play for the 'General Public' like a pro has to. They have play to please the band as well or they get the sack...



No, I only ever play for my self satisfaction and sense of achievement....



 



 


fujers - Posted - 03/18/2015:  14:30:21


Henry, Those tired old fiddle licks I play have served me well and I have a whole bunch more to go along with them

Mark O.Conner, Stuart Duncan and A host of other fiddlers all have a bag of licks that can just draw off if they ever need them

I use these licks in my everyday playing and I have a ton of them. So if I ever need them they are there ay my waiting call.

I read that you don't have a bag of licks. That's a shame. You should have a little bag of licks somewhere.

So lets say you do improve right....you're going to pull from this bag of licks to get just what you want

If you don't have a bag of licks that's your fault not mine

Every good fiddler has his'hers own special bag that they pull from. You noticed I used the word "good" it can be found in the dictionary I think it's next to "gooder" Look it up

So these old licks that I use, these tired old licks so you call it. I use them everyday Henry. I don't leave home without them

You can say anything you want about me...I really don't care. Besides, I have a cool little bag of licks that I carry with me...just in case I need them

So these tired old licks are important to me I can't survive without them.

I don't usually do this...I'm just a happy go lucky fella. But when someone get my goat I go back to get it

This is you ain't it Henry in all your Glory. It's you right?

What do you hear?

I'll tell you what I hear. Nothing

Henry just plays on the front part and all that good fiddling that comes behind it he didn't play because he can't

If I were you Henry I'd start building me a bag of licks...sounds like you need em. Jerry





VIDEO: New River Train
(click to view)

   

Lee M - Posted - 03/18/2015:  14:34:12


I love the way you two guys love each other.. You sound like me and my brother discussing ANYTHING...(that is not a complaint).....


fujers - Posted - 03/18/2015:  14:37:29


Lee, We are just two fiddlers discussing stuff. No arguments we're just talking

Lee M - Posted - 03/18/2015:  14:43:11


quote:

Originally posted by fujers

 

Lee, We are just two fiddlers discussing stuff. No arguments we're just talking







Yes.. that is the point.. To people who don't read these threads regularly they would think that you hated each other but those of us who are here all the time know better..  You are both very candid and entertaining in your conversation style.



 


phiddlepicker - Posted - 03/18/2015:  16:31:48


I dunno....my bunny slippers just ran and hid under the bed.cheeky


fiddlebut - Posted - 03/18/2015:  21:27:42


quote:

Originally posted by fujers



If I were you Henry I'd start building me a bag of licks...sounds like you need em. Jerry





 







Of course it sounds like that to you...?  You need your bags, you can't leave home with out them.



And that's what you sound like to me....!



You don't seem to understand, I don't play for your entertainment, I play for mine.



I play what I feel like playing...!?



You are the pro, not me..You need the licks....not me...!?



You better have a ton of licks or you'll get the sack...!!



Just keep dishing out your insults Jerry, because that is all you are capable of.......



 



 



Edited by - fiddlebut on 03/18/2015 21:31:37

fiddlebut - Posted - 03/18/2015:  22:25:12


quote:

Originally posted by fujers


 

 But when someone get my goat I go back to get it



 






Hey...!! You got my goat first....!? Remember.? Nah, don't worry about it son..........


fujers - Posted - 03/18/2015:  23:55:28


Well Henry, I guess the righting's on the wall isn't it. We just don't see eye to eye on things. What you see as good and what I see are different things.

What you see is yang...I might call it ying.

Don't ever call me son. I do not appreciate that. I ain't your son and never will be.

Remember I got you on the cycle of fiths...Remember that...Oh my I just opened up another can of worms. lets go. Jerry



fiddlebut - Posted - 03/19/2015:  00:02:24


quote:

Originally posted by fujers

 





Remember I got you on the cycle of fiths...





 







You what...!!



You did not contribute one iota to that thread, just made your self look foolish..



Did you read Conrads post in that thread....you better go back and take a look old boy...


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