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haggis - Posted - 07/04/2014: 14:45:10
I have spent my working life as a teacher of Art & Design and so am more comfortable with the visual. A few hours working on this and I think I have opened a few doors for myself. Obviously still a lot of work to do on it. Studying it I believe it helps with a number of things: Major and Natural Minor scales ; 7 finger patterns ; 7 positions ; 7 modes ; 5 major and minor pentatonic scales; 5 blues scales and they also points to an understanding of double stops and arpeggios. My question is, do these diagrams mean anything to anyone, am I on the right track and is there anything else I can find there?
Duckinacup - Posted - 07/04/2014: 15:40:28
Now I'm curious!
UsuallyPickin - Posted - 07/04/2014: 17:19:54
Yes ....... those diagrams are finger position "charts" for the visually oriented....the spaces between tones ..are equal to the space between your fingers ...... I worked out similar things at one point In Microsoft Excel by both color coded and by letter ........... It's all whole and half steps...... or together and apart spacing .. or major and minor thirds ........... R/
chops_butcher - Posted - 07/04/2014: 18:13:20
Been there, done that........now you gotta practice it..............
pete_fiddle - Posted - 07/04/2014: 23:11:42
yes,you have the modes at the top and the pentatonjcs at the bottom
not the way i worked the pentatonics out though
Edited by - pete_fiddle on 07/04/2014 23:14:35
alaskafiddler - Posted - 07/04/2014: 23:29:04
yep they make sense - I have made similar ones for teaching - the one thing I did a little different (which yours does sort of show) is how how they are connected in a cycle. that there (for major/minor) are mainly 3 string fingerings, 1=wwh; 2=whw; 3=hww; that come in pairs, and then a single www and follow a cycle back into the #1
Your example if put together show how they cycle. Your #1 #2 and #3 pairings - follow that order and you can just put them together that way - (essentially #5 represents connection from 1 to 2; #6 is the connection of 2 to 3.
The last 3 and back into the 1 could be visualized a few ways. One is like your #7 and then #4 - that is the last half of #3 is the same as the first half of #7 - and the last half of #4 is the first half of #1. leaving the linking step with www.
The other option is to shift up in going from #3 back to #1 - That is extend the last part of #3 by adding a half step on the bottom of it; and that then creates the first half of the #1 pair.
shift
2b 3a 3b/1a. 1b 2a 2b
● ● ● | | |
| ● ● ● ● ●
● | | | | |
● ● ● ● ● ●
| | | | ● ●
● ● ● ● | |
| | ● ● ● ●
So the new pair of #1 - and all that follows is now shifted up a half position.; sometimes I do that, just by shifting my first finger up - as would occur in the key of A - G# to A on the G string. . .but depends on the tune, how easy it is to shift, and what the melody is going to be doing.
haggis - Posted - 07/05/2014: 10:33:12
The numbers above the pentatonics do not refer to the 7 numbers above the major scales. Rather they refer to which of the 5 pentatonic notes is the first of that particular pattern..
haggis - Posted - 07/05/2014: 11:11:09
Thanks for the feedback guys. The work now begins.
snakefinger - Posted - 07/07/2014: 03:22:26
Don't forget to play some tunes too!
Peghead - Posted - 07/08/2014: 07:57:30
If you can play the major scales (closed) starting on each individual finger that will cover it all. (most of it anyway for fiddling) When you reach the second octave the scale simply starts on a different finger and so on. 4 fingers, 4 scale positions, after that they repeat. This encompasses the modes and minor scales, for those you just start on a different note.
Lee Mysliwiec - Posted - 07/12/2014: 04:25:04
quote:
Originally posted by haggis
I have spent my working life as a teacher of Art & Design and so am more comfortable with the visual. A few hours working on this and I think I have opened a few doors for myself. Obviously still a lot of work to do on it. Studying it I believe it helps with a number of things: Major and Natural Minor scales ; 7 finger patterns ; 7 positions ; 7 modes ; 5 major and minor pentatonic scales; 5 blues scales and they also points to an understanding of double stops and arpeggios. My question is, do these diagrams mean anything to anyone, am I on the right track and is there anything else I can find there?
That photo brings back memories....You are 'payin your dues" by figuring that out....
Joel Glassman - Posted - 07/13/2014: 20:03:13
As a mandolin player [in addition to fiddle] I think of the scales this way: oocities.org/drchenson/Scales.jpg These are in the key of A. Although there are a variety of boxes here, I tend to think only of the major shape. If you know that shape, and where the scale tones are, its easy to derive every iteration in your head.
Would make the 1,3, and 5 scale notes solid black, and the other notes a white circle with a black outline. That way you can see the chord shapes [aka the shapes of the arpeggios]. "Playing the changes" is an awareness of which melody notes are played in a tune during a chord's duration. I see this as an intuitive thing, learned by paying attention, although one can view it as more mathematical.
Edited by - Joel Glassman on 07/13/2014 20:07:45
'Done Gone - Jesse Milnes' 39 min
'The Keystone Fiddlers' 11 hrs
