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 ARCHIVED TOPIC: Old Timey Sameyness


Please note this is an archived topic, so it is locked and unable to be replied to. You may, however, start a new topic and refer to this topic with a link: http://www.fiddlehangout.com/archive/29391

plederman - Posted - 08/02/2012:  08:58:04



Just got back from a first time shortened visit to Cliff Top festival and I'm sort of confused by the predominant style of play there.



I've been working on my fiddling, trying to get close to the sound of the old timers I have recorded...Mel Wine, Charley Osborne, Art Stamper etc...what I hear is very distinctive playing by each....each note a point to hear, and bowings that make the sound sort of original with each one...



The music coming out of many of the tents at Cliff Top was very rounded, all played at a consistent high speed and I had a hard time identifying a tune even if it was a tune I played all the time.



I am obviously new to the festival scene and felt isolated in being unable to join in....but are there different schools for this kind of playing/jamming?....and am I a lost tribe?



 



Thanks


IdleHands - Posted - 08/02/2012:  09:17:38


I believe its a conspiracy to uglify these beautiful fiddle tunes, so the vast listening public will not become interested in works of public domain.

fiddlepogo - Posted - 08/02/2012:  11:14:55



What you're hearing might be especially a CLIFFTOP sameyness.



There is this thing called "Festival Style" Old Time.  That might be much of what you're hearing.



One thing to keep in mind is that there is Old Time Fiddling, and Old Time String Band music.



Since Old Time string bands include fiddles, there is some overlap, but it's not exactly the same.



String band tunes are often simpler, and there is a place for a mediocre fiddler to hide. (like Gid Tanner)



The better fiddlers preferred to showcase their more worked out sound with just a guitar accompaniment, and that also gave them the freedom to play more complex tunes.



But the fiddlers that started out in the late '60s and early 70's were seldom up to the more complex fiddle tunes- they'd often only been playing for a few years, and the string band sound, especially with two fiddles, was appealing because it DID make enough noise to cover up some of the flaws in the fiddling.  The result is that even after playing and improving for 30, 40 years, many of the best fiddlers spent time in string bands, and are really comfortable playing in a string band, or in a jam that's getting a string band sound.



Also, the old recordings are not only giving you glimpses of different PERSONAL styles, they are also glimpses into different regional styles.  What with modern media making Old Time recordings available all over the country, and with people listening to a series of popular bands over the years (New Lost City Ramblers, Highwoods, Hollow Rock S.B. Fuzzy Mountain S.B., Skirt Lifters, Reel Time Travelers, Freight Hoppers- who did I miss?) I think it's contributing to the formation of a NATIONAL Old Time style. And Clifftop itself, since it's the biggest Old Time festival is probably contributing to that as well.



I think much of what you're hearing is probably a highly refined version of a string band sound.



I also get the idea that in the olden days, string bands adjusted more to the fiddler, now the fiddler is often the most advanced and flexible player, and can adjust as much or more to the sound of the rest of the band as they adjust to the fiddler.



However, it's quite likely that if you got some of these fiddlers you heard at Clifftop alone, or with just a guitar, you'd probably hear something more personal and distinctive.  Likewise, if you were to go to some more regional festivals, you would hear more of a regional sound, where they are trying to carry on the traditional style of their state or region.



It's also possible that the people who are more focused on a particular regional style are LESS likely to go to Clifftop.



I don't know whether they showed up at Clifftop or not, but some fiddlers who DO tend to focus on a regional or even a particular fiddler's style are:



Mike Bryant (Tennessee) Roger Cooper (Kentucky) Dwight Diller (West Virginia) Bruce Greene (Kentucky, IIRC) Jake Krack (Melvin Wine) Alan Jabbour (Henry Reed), and anybody into Round Peak style.



And some of those regions or individual traditional fiddlers have local festivals dedicated to them.



Edited by - fiddlepogo on 08/02/2012 11:28:27

GeeDubya - Posted - 08/06/2012:  06:22:14



Well, just having returned from Clifftop, I'd opine there's a wide variety of stuff there to listen to & play.  The "festival style" alluded to is intended to be inclusive and the tunes heard are often popular and somewhat streamlined so many folks can join in.  With a dozen or more folks playing the tune there's little point in trying to play a specific regional or fiddler's version.  That said, at Clifftop there are plenty of regional jams if you seek them out, but they may not be as inclusive.  Also there are plenty of intimate, private sessions that are very focused.


rcc - Posted - 08/06/2012:  07:42:15


What GeeDubya said. You see (and hear) the same mix of jams at Old-time Week in Swannanoa. Everything from big jams with more than a dozen fiddlers, etc. to really focused jams with 1 or 2 (typically 1) of each instrument in a really small circle.

There are lots of great players who have a distinctive non-festival style who go to Clifftop. I know because many of who are on staff (or drop in) to OT week at Swannanoa go to Clifftop after.

The real factor is size of the jam. Get a large jam with lots of fiddlers, banjos, guitars, etc. and the result is going to be a wall of sound with a streamlined version. You could switch to a different tune in one of those jams or drop out and no one standing farther away from you would notice.

Medium-sized jams can go either way depending on the skill level of the players involved.

In a small jam, there's no place to hide. Any nuance you put into the music will be heard for better or worse :-).

vibratingstring - Posted - 08/07/2012:  02:28:36



I also have noticed something about the tunes at Clifftop and other camping jams. There is a hard drive to most of the tunes you hear. Even tunes that you might think would be played more slowly or sweetly. But there is something compelling about that hard drive. And it's fun. But I hear plederman and concur.

Generally, I think some musicians speed up tunes when the tune is old hat and falls under the fingers easily after playing it 100 times.

Larry

Mandogryl - Posted - 08/07/2012:  11:49:06



This thread is now locked, as we have a duplicate thread as per the link below.



fiddlehangout.com/topic/29392 


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