jkcap19 - Posted - 07/23/2012:  16:24:43

This is my first post here and I am really new to the fiddle world. My question is how do I know what notes on the fiddle to play when jamming with other instruments even if I do not know the song? If the guitar is playing a D G A song are those the notes that I play on the fiddle? If this is a very easy question of yes I am sorry in advance it just seems way to simple to be an easy yes.

UsuallyPickin - Posted - 07/23/2012:  17:01:24

Dude or Dudette .... Welcome to the wonderful world of fiddling..... and music ...
Well that is the start of what to play but it goes on from there for... well a long ways. In a nut shell. THose three chords are composed of three notes each ... each of those notes are safe to play while the other instruments are playing those chords. A "D" chord is composed of a D an F# and an A, the first third and fifth note in the "A" scale. It is also called a major triad. Any of the major triad notes are safe to play when youi are in that chord. THis will become boring to your ear so as you learn how to play you can add the pentatonic scale to your arsenal the easiest way for me to describe that is the opening series of an old song called My Girl. Wikipedia has a wealth of info on this subject. And music theory ie. how music works....
Solfedge ie. do rae me fa so la ti do can be reduced to 12345671 so the 135 of a scale are the do me so of the scale and the notes of a major triad
THe Pentatonic scale is 134571 or CEFGBC skipping the 2 & the 6 the D and the A in the key of C ... these are the safe notes in C It takes time to get these notes under your fingers. Practice your scales both pentatonic and full and arpeggios , chords played one note at a time up and down backwards and forwards, in the keys of A C D G to start with then fill in the rest of the keys. Be patient .... when you can play them without thinking about them to much you can begin to improvise freely. Always remember the three "T's" Timing Taste and Tone...... Enjoy the journey.

fiddlepogo - Posted - 07/23/2012:  19:04:08

quote:

---

Originally posted by jkcap19

This is my first post here and I am really new to the fiddle world. My question is how do I know what notes on the fiddle to play when jamming with other instruments even if I do not know the song? If the guitar is playing a D G A song are those the notes that I play on the fiddle? If this is a very easy question of yes I am sorry in advance it just seems way to simple to be an easy yes.

---

A lot depends on the style the people in question are playing in.  Bluegrass and Old Time have pretty specific requirements- for both, learning a low double stop compatible with those chords is a good start- then with Bluegrass you'd "chop" on the backbeat, and with Old Time, you could shuffle or drone. 

With other styles, folk, singer-songwriter, New Age, Blues, a pentatonic scale in the key is a good thing to know.  To get the sound of a pentatonic scale, play just the black keys on a piano. Depending on what note you come to rest on, it's either major or minor pentatonic.  Unfortunately that doesn't work out to be a very easy key on the fiddle, but if you have a cheap electronic keyboard with a transpose function, you could use it to find pentatonic scales in different keys.

Oh yeah... I forgot- the intro lick to "My Girl" by the Rolling Stones is a major pentatonic scale, then extend it as far as you can go in either direction in first position.

martynspeck - Posted - 07/24/2012:  07:39:53

Arpeggios. I am on the same path. I'm going to play my backing track for some of the tunes I know but this time to learn the chords.

I'll play back and forth in rhythm over the chords (1,3,5 in various octaves), then start adding transition notes. Pretty soon you're improvising.

FiddleJammer - Posted - 07/24/2012:  07:52:52

I think of it all as finger patterns and relationships - half tones, whole tones, shapes like diagonal lines and triangles and 'x'-like shapes. They are similar by key, and if you play in one key for a bit, they become more clear and repeatable. Being able to read notation and a good dose of music theory are good approaches, but with old time at least, it was taught on the porch from person to person and over-intellectualizing about it is not all that necessary.

But, the overall best way, imho, to learn where the right notes are is to listen to heaps of music. Especially tunes that catch your interest and pop up from time to time as earworms. That's your message to yourself that you are getting closer to knowing the tune.

Good luck on your journey!

Terri

coelhoe - Posted - 07/24/2012:  10:38:40

IMO, this is more difficult than you might think from the above. If you are in an instrumental jam, you play the tune and then vamp (or not play) when others are playing. Being able to harmonize "on the fly" in a jam is tricky stuff, even for experienced players.  If there is vocal, you either play the melody or end-of-line fills and turn-arounds but not during the singing.  Many times, it is just fine to not play. Others will thank you.

boxbow - Posted - 07/24/2012:  17:44:23

The important thing is to hear harmony.  Whistle or hum a harmony line to the music you listen to while driving or doing the dishes or exercising.  I also recommend tapping out rhythms on your thigh or however works best for you, because much of back up on a fiddle calls for rhythmic support of the lead musician.  After a while it'll get easier.  Do it fancy, do it simple, do it differently from verse to verse, just play games with it.  The scales and arpeggios in your fiddle practice sessions should teach your ear to recognize intonation.  If you can merge these two skills, you're in business.  The goal for me is to play (whistle, hum, clap) what I hear in my head.  The more I do this, the more I hear.  The more familiar I get with a tune, the more I think of to try.  Also, just to emphasis the point, as fiddlepogo pointed out, what is properly played depends on the genre.  More listening is called for, to figure out what the musicians you admire think is appropriate for the genre. 

The worst that can happen is that you might play some bum notes.  Hey, who hasn't?  The thing is, bum notes don't last long, just the embarrassment, which passes (you're a FIDDLER now, don't be shy!) and you'll also learn how to brazen your way out of a screw-up.  Very useful skill, that.  Finally, it's altogether too easy to play too many notes, for too much of the tune, so do try not to. 

When you're making the big bucks, different rules apply.  Now is not the time to worry.  Train your left hand to play the notes in your head.  Train your bowing hand to keep the sound and the timing crisp.  Give it plenty of time.  Make the others sound good, and you'll have done well.

alaskafiddler - Posted - 07/24/2012:  18:38:51

quote:

---

Originally posted by jkcap19

This is my first post here and I am really new to the fiddle world. My question is how do I know what notes on the fiddle to play when jamming with other instruments even if I do not know the song? If the guitar is playing a D G A song are those the notes that I play on the fiddle? If this is a very easy question of yes I am sorry in advance it just seems way to simple to be an easy yes.

---

Your question can be interpreted many ways (as you might have noticed). First off, you used the term "song" - which for some folks means it's a vocally based piece of music; and they use the term "tune" in reference to instrumentals. Further in instrumentals there are some differences in guidelines as to what kind of music it is; and what kind of context the music is being played in.

Your question could be interpreted about what you might eventually be doing in some styles (improvising, breaks, harmony, vamping, chops, chords..) that would back up a "lead" (singer or other instrument.) That is, "how does one figure out how to take a break on a song they don't know?"

If you are speaking of just a "fiddle tune" jam, where typically there is no "lead" multiple folks playing the melody. If you don't know the song/tune, it's quite okay, sit back and try and "catch" the tune; the goal being to get as close to and as much of the melody as possible. Mostly you rely on your ears, but knowing the scales, and pentatonic versions can be quite helpful in this regard. 

In some of these styles however, a harmony part is quite difficult to pull off; and just droning chords, playing arpeggios, or traipsing around scales and shuffles, is just seen as "noodling" and something you might want to avoid.

Sometimes the best thing to play when you don't know a song/tune is just your ears, and observe what others are doing. There is generally no requirement for a beginner to have to add anything; some folks think just because they are in the jam they have play something.

Edited by - alaskafiddler on 07/24/2012 18:45:30

mudbug - Posted - 08/16/2012:  03:13:43

Yes,  very varied answers according to what you actually meant,  as this could be looked at many ways.  I'm going to assume that you meant jamming with folks playing a vocal song,  and you are trying to do a lead break.  Chances are,  it's going to be a simple melody.  (I'm assuming you're not jamming with jazzers).  Listen to the vocal melody and try to mimic for starters.  Start with one key (I found  D easiest to start with).  Practice the scale up,  down,  partway up and then down.  Play melodies in your head in that key.  Get out your CD collection and make a list of what keys the songs are in.  Put on all the D tunes and jam along.  Think like a singer.  Notice how some are very straight and right on the beat and how some like Billie Hollady and Frank Sinatra will linger on a word or syllable.  Listen to how different instruments,  whether a mandolin or pedal steel phrases,  and try to mimic.  Play the same songs every day and try different phrasing.  Eventually,  you will develop you own voice.  At some point,  when you're comfortable with D,  add anouther key like G or A.  Rinse and repeat.

p1cklef1sh - Posted - 08/16/2012:  11:25:50

Im still tryin to figure it out.

Sue B. - Posted - 08/19/2012:  08:37:01

If you play something that sounds bad, go up or down one note, and that one will blend in. If you get good at slurring quickly off the funky one to an OK one, it sounds like you're playing "ornaments". No joke. Knowing the scale for the key, extended to all the strings, is very helpful.

tarheel - Posted - 09/04/2012:  18:55:57

Practice playing along with the song you want to learn, Dont play the note the vocalist hits. Dont overplay. sometimes a long extended note, or just not playing is best. Your job is always to make the song sound better, and also to lead the vocalist or instrumentalist into the next phrase. that is, if it is your turn to comp, play but LISTEN FOR SOMEBODY ELSE  THAT WANTS TO TAKE A PHRASE, dont step on the other instruments toes if they are comping.

IdleHands - Posted - 09/09/2012:  10:11:17

Pull out all the stops, play as loud and as many notes as you can. Steal the entire show. Get a standing ovation just for you.