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Please note this is an archived topic, so it is locked and unable to be replied to. You may, however, start a new topic and refer to this topic with a link: http://www.fiddlehangout.com/archive/26873
krudolph - Posted - 03/05/2012: 11:50:02
Help. I'm trying to figure out the 1-3-5 notes for each major key. I'm getting a little confused. Can someone tell me what they are for:
G
A
B
C
D
E
F
I try to figure it out, but my brain starts going in circles. Thanks in advance!
Mandogryl - Posted - 03/05/2012: 15:24:15
If I were you I would want the 1, 4, and 5 notes.
A. D E
B E F#
C F G
D G A
E A B
F Bflat C
G C D
Fidleir - Posted - 03/05/2012: 16:01:34
While I could be wrong here - if the OP is looking for arpeggios (as the title suggests) then I believe he/she does want the 1st, 3rd and 5th notes of the scales. Thus D scale's arps would be these notes: D, G, and B. G scale arps would be: G, B, and D. and so on for all the scales. At least, that is what two different teachers have told me over the years. Both professional musicians.
Dick Hauser - Posted - 03/05/2012: 16:36:17
Are you looking for arpeggios ? Learn which notes are used for a major scale. Then play the 1-3-5 notes of that scale. If I were you, I would learn a commonly played major scale, and AFTER that play arpeggios (1-3-5 notes), 3rds, and other exercises that familiarize you with fingering patterns and the location of notes on the fingerboard.
I only practice scales/exercises for the keys of G,D,A,C,F, and Bb. If a person understands scales and is familiar with them, it doesn't take long to learn which notes are used for each scale. Go to the library and read a book about musical scales.
Discuss scales, arpeggios, chords, etc. with other musicians.
boxbow - Posted - 03/05/2012: 17:10:14
Can you clarify what you're trying to accomplish? mandogryl makes a good point. 1-3-5 would be the triad of a major chord, while 1-4-5 would be the three most commonly used chords in a given key. In the key of Gmaj, for instance, the 1-4-5 chords would be G, C, and D. In the key of D they would be D, G, and A. In the key of A you have A, D, and E. In the key of E you get E, A. and B. In Bb you have Bb, D, and F. There is a pattern. If you look at the fingers of your left hand, in the key of A, your thumb is A, your 4th finger (ring finger) is D and your fifth finger (pinkie) is E.
Gmaj chord=G-B-D. G is the "root," B is the "third," and D is the "fifth." The same thing goes for the following: Amaj chord=A-C#-F, Bmaj chord=B-D#-F#, Cmaj chord=C-E-G, Dmaj chord=D-F#-A, Emaj chord=E-G#-B, Fmaj chord=F-A-C. This is a different pattern, and the hand trick doesn't work out so well. A piano keyboard is very helpful at this point. Also, I've tried to get all the sharps right, but I make no guarantees.
So if we pick the key of Emaj, AKA "E" and "E Major," then the 1-4-5 chords are Emaj (E-G#-B) and Amaj (A-C#-F) and Bmaj (B-D#-F#). If you look at the key signature for the key of E you'll find a bunch of sharps, four of them to be precise. You won't normally find an F chord, for instance, in the key of E. For one thing, the key of E uses an F#. It also uses a C#. An F chord uses both an F natural and a C natural. However, if you look at an F#minor chord (F#-A-C#), you'll see it fits the E major scale and you might find it in a tune in the key of E. It might also be called the "2" chord.
A quick look at basic music theory will fill out this very brief outline. No, scratch that, a long and painstaking look at basic music theory will get you started on filling out this brief, yet convoluted and complicated outline. Sorry, best I can do in less than 150 words. I have a Hal Leonard book called Mandolin Scale Finder and I also have The Complete Idiot's Guide to Music Theory. Between the two, I can usually figure out what's going on. At some point, you're gonna have to suck it up and do the homework. Or not. 99.9% of the time, mandogryl's response is all you need.
edit- While I was composing my response, some others pitched in with considerable clarity and the parsimonious use of the Queen's English. I see now that you're trying to figure out the notes of a scale as much as the notes of a major triad. Your ear is trainable. It is really your "go to" tool of choice for this. If a note sounds wrong, chances are, it IS wrong. With time, you'll learn to trust your judgement. More importantly, your fingers will play the correct interval from one note to the next just because. After all, do-re-mi works because that's how our ears work, not the other way around. Really.
Edited by - boxbow on 03/05/2012 17:25:35
Sue B. - Posted - 03/05/2012: 18:53:13
Do you read notation? There are a lot of printed sources and free stuff you can find online. If not, do you know the major scales already? The arpeggio of each is the first, third, fifth (plus eighth or octave) note of the scale starting from the bottom. Ex. C major: C d E f G a b C . The capitals are the notes in the arpeggio. C E G C G E C going up then back down the arpeggio. Sue
Larry Rutledge - Posted - 03/05/2012: 19:07:59
Thank you all, these post have really helped me. Larry
DougD - Posted - 03/05/2012: 20:31:16
krudolph - Here you go:
G-B-D
A-C#-E
B-D#-F#
C-E-G
D-F#-A
E-G#-B
F-A-C
Hope that helps.
Diane G - Posted - 03/05/2012: 21:44:26
Hi....There is a great book out that really explains this in a very basic format....MelBay's book: Hokum, Theory and Scales for Fiddle Tunes and Improvisation. The whole process how to figure out the 1,3,5 notes for the chords (arpeggio: means broken chord) of each major scales, the I, IV and V chord and how the arpeggios in each major scale work in a scale and in various tunes. This is a great book for anyone interested in learning...you don't have to know how to read music for this book. I highly recommend it...most of my adult students I have them use this book as a theory workbook for a great understanding of building musicianship.
Diane in SoCal
fiddlerdi - Posted - 03/06/2012: 20:21:41
Diane G is right this is a really good book. I have used it a lot with my students....
-Diane G aka Fiddlerdi
alaskafiddler - Posted - 03/07/2012: 11:36:00
Learning those 1, 3, 5 (and octaves) for each key is good for knowing the core notes for the key you are in. As an alternative to good explanations above; if you know Do, Re, Mi, Fa, Sol, La, Ti, Do, you can learn to listen to for them; Do is the 1, Mi is the 3, Sol is the 5. For major keys, minor keys have a different 3 (Me or Ma).
Another good thing to expand the core from that is in learning the next two important notes (making a pentatonic scale) for each key; 1, 2, 3, 5 and 6 (added 2 and 6) or the Do, Re, Mi, Sol and La. With that, many fiddle tunes and songs melodically fall right into those notes.
modon - Posted - 03/09/2012: 20:25:18
I believe arpeggios are the true path to improvisation. What I did was make a fingerboard chart for each key... then dot the locations of the significant 1s 3s and 5s. it gives you a visual reference as to where to find the double stops for that chord.
this really cleared it up for me and i have my students do this also... most claim it helps them.
krudolph - Posted - 03/11/2012: 09:52:53
A big thanks to everyone who posted. I think it's starting to set in now after all of these good comments!
Leon Grizzard - Posted - 03/11/2012: 10:02:39
quote:
Originally posted by DougD
And written by a fellow member here, I believe.
Shucks