leather Britches - Posted - 05/28/2011:  08:50:41

Hello, 

    I have a good understanding of theory, however I have always applied it in relation to the key of C or G. 

I can apply it all keys. but just not as quickly , I can tell you how many sharps or flats there are in most keys with out thinking to long about it

but the other keys i have to either think longer or write it out.

    My wording is " I have learned them all, but now I have Know them "  does this analogy make sense to you.

    For example if I am playing in C or G, I know were all the notes are on the fingerboard, I know the chord triads, chord substitutes, the extension notes,

relative minors, etc, and I can do this while I am jamming " provided the tempo is not too fast and I am familiar with the tune or song. "

    So for those of you that KNOW all the keys and are able to apply theory to them on the fly, How did you get them into your head ?

     For me C and G came after playing them for so long then one day I noticed that i KNEW them, but I was not making a conscious effort, but it took years

is there a more active way to get the keys in my head?

    Thanks

    John

OTJunky - Posted - 05/28/2011:  09:43:52

Well, this "learning the keys" thing is kind of a foreign concept to me - though I do know Bluegrass and Swing fiddlers who think it's worthwhile.

Usually they approach it by learning "Chord" formations on the finger board, then figuring out where the root, third, fifth, sixth, sevenths and ninths are in each chord formation.  Then they move between chords thinking in terms of I, IV, V, etc. without bothering to name them.

All this is too hard for me, of course, and not really needed for old time or Irish fiddling where most playing is tune oriented and most songs are harmonically straight forward.

But I'm told that if you want to approach improvisation using chord formations, then it's helpful to get a mandolin.  A mandolin's tuned the same as a fiddle (in standard tuning).  It has frets so you can play around with chord formations without the agony of trying to get all the notes in tune, and - for this kind of practice - it's a bit easier to deal with a flat pick than a bow.

At least that's the advice Johnny Gimble has often given.

--OTJ

Edited by - OTJunky on 05/28/2011 09:45:28

jet - Posted - 05/28/2011:  17:26:01

Caveat: I am in my first months of learning the fiddle after many years playing trumpet / jazz. 

>How did you get them into your head ?

Playing scales and intervals over and over and over again until I had a mental mapping of key -> allowable notes.  One of the hardest things for me is the major and minor scales that have the equivalent key signature but have scales that start on different notes, for example Dmaj and Bmin.

As boring as it can be, rote practice is how I got this down.  I'd spend a significant chunk of my warm up time just playing scales and intervals from sheet music.  I don't know if reading them really helps, but I feel like it helped me.

fiddlepogo - Posted - 05/28/2011:  19:35:08

I find the trick with fiddle is to remember that it's tuned in FIFTHS.

You are familiar with C and G- great- they are next to each other on the circle of fifths.

D is like G, but played one string higher- the high string goes missing, and you have to learn new fingerings on the string at the bottom.

THEN, A, is like D, but played one string higher- the high string goes missing, and you have to learn new fingerings on the string at the bottom.

THEN, E (if you want to go there) is like A, but played one string higher- the high string goes missing, and you have to learn new fingerings on the string at the bottom.

THEN, B (if you want to go there) is like E, but played one string higher- the high string goes missing, and you have to learn new fingerings on the string at the bottom.

You can do the opposite direction too.

F is like C, but played one string lower- the low string goes missing, and you have to learn new fingerings on the string at the top.

Bb is like F, but played one string lower- the low string goes missing, and you have to learn new fingerings on the string at the top.

Eb is like Bb, but played one string lower- the low string goes missing, and you have to learn new fingerings on the string at the top.

And you could do the same for Ab, Db, and Gb, but I haven't bothered yet.

By learning the next key over in the circle of fifths from a key you know, you really only have to learn one string's worth of new fingerings at a time.

This makes it easier, and gives you maximum "bang" for the amount of time invested.

Edited by - fiddlepogo on 05/29/2011 19:23:05

Bob L - Posted - 05/28/2011:  19:44:09

If you think about things in terms of numbers instead of notes, it becomes more transferrable.  Like the ii Minor chord and the V7 or the I chord.  Or maybe the notes in the triad, 1 3 5 and the dominant 7th, 1 3 5 b7.

It helps to have a way to keep chord numbers and note numbers distinct somehow - a lot of notation uses Roman Numerals for the chords, capitals for major and lower case for minor, and then regular numbers for the notes or scale degrees. 

There's a whole culture of musical analysis that looks at tunes according the the chords and notes as they relate to the "tonal center," also known as "one."  After a while you start being able to tell what a six chord is going to sound like, either as a dominant 7th or as a minor. 

This gives you one system to understand the theory, with the numbers, then by applying the numbers to the different keys, using specific tunes as the vehicle for that, it can go a bit faster.

cheekee - Posted - 05/28/2011:  20:57:27

fiddlepogo said it.  the fifths.

you can find tonnes of stuff online to help you learn the circle of fifths...here is one site that looks halfway decent.

folkblues.com/theory/circle_5ths.htm 

the one piece of info left out of that page (it seems...i just skimmed it), is the fact that sharps and flats have a specific order.  they aren't random. 

order of sharps: FCGDAEB

order of flats:  BEADGCF

you only have to memorize one...preferably the sharps...because the other is the same thing in reverse.  i don't like the sentence often used "father charles goes down and ends battles" because i don't think it's a good sentence.  my students came up with "fat cats go down alleys eating birds" to remember the sharps, and they think it works better.

so, if you are using the circle and have a key with three sharps (A major), you HAVE to pick FCG...in that order.  if my students tell me GCF or CFG or whatever, i tell them they are wrong.  its good to have a habit of always listing them in order. 

i tell my students to memorize the flats by using the name of the key and adding the next flat...so the key of Db would have all the flats up to Db plus the next one (BEADG)

RobBob - Posted - 05/29/2011:  07:21:27

Music and math.  I love it/  In math the numbers are the constants and the letters are the variables.  In music, the letters are the constants and the numbers are the variables.  Simple as that.

DougD - Posted - 05/29/2011:  07:47:20

I guess a mnemonic can be helpful, but I've never felt the need, since the order of sharps is just the circle of fifths again, and the flats are added in fourths (or fifths in reverse). If you can just remember that the key of G has an F#, and F has a Bb you can take it from there, with only one thing to learn.

Or just learn the bass side of an accordion, which goes:  Gb,Db,Ab,Eb,Bb,F,C,G,D,A,E,B. Start at C and go in either direction.

Or maybe just learn the pattern first, and then you'll be ready when you get the opportunity to play an accordion!

cheekee - Posted - 05/29/2011:  08:25:37

yay!  accordian.  i am maybe the worst accordian player in the entire universe.  :)  and i don't care.

i teach mnemonics for everything because my students write exams and different learning and study strategies work for different people.  not everyone readily sees patterns...i remember struggling with this stuff when i first started learning about it.  i think it is just all about how your brain works, and besides, there is more than one way to put all that info together in your mind.  my students have to all the tools they can have so that they can use the information quickly, accurately AND also be able  to regurgitate it on an exam for marks. 

leather Britches - Posted - 05/29/2011:  10:36:56

Hello,

   All of the suggestions above are helpful for me to " learn " the keys and some theory, I have a good grasp on that stuff.

   User " Jet " has suggested, what I believe to be the closest way for me to " Know " the keys. It may be just repetition that 

is going to cement the notes in my head.

     Thanks for the math RobBob, but I see the Numbers as the constants and the letters are the variables,

a major triad is the 1 3 5 of any major scale, this is how I learned the circle of fifths,  however I would be open to your view, it may help me.

    This is a rather extreme example of how I view, learn and know.

    Most of KNOW that 25 / 5 = 5 but we have learned how to divide 364/ 14 to get 26 most of us may be able to get this number in our head

but it may take a while, I just use a calculator.

    Maybe I could have made this simpler and asked :

    What is the best way to memorize the notes in all keys?

     Thanks for your help

    John

OTJunky - Posted - 05/29/2011:  11:25:41

quote:

---

Originally posted by leather Britches

What is the best way to memorize the notes in all keys?

 

---

 Well, if you just want to play them, then the best way is to learn to hear and play the "intervals" - whole steps and half steps - so you can start on any note and play the scales associated with it - Ionian, Aeolian, Mixolydian, Dorian, etc.  Those four are all that's needed for fiddling though Jazz players need the other modes too.  You just need to know where the half steps are located in each mode.

If you want to learn the names of all the notes in all the scales, I can't help you because I can't see the point of it.

--OTJ

Sue B. - Posted - 05/29/2011:  11:51:47

Fat Cats Get Dizzy After Eating Butter.

cheekee - Posted - 05/29/2011:  12:40:10

i like that one sue!  haha

Bob L - Posted - 05/29/2011:  13:13:54

quote:

---

Originally posted by leather BritchesWhat is the best way to memorize the notes in all keys?

---

Brute force?

FiddleJammer - Posted - 05/30/2011:  08:46:53

All good advice here!

I found it helpful to make an 'empty' chart of the strings and then, as an exercise, pencil in where the notes are for each key on all 4 strings. You will notice the finger patterns, or shapes, that are characteristic in each key. For old time, that'd just be the keys of G, D, and A to get your started. Add C, Bb, and F down the road. For folks who's heads get blurry thinking too much about letters and numbers, I think the scale and chord 'shapes' approach accelerates learning the finger board and keys.

Peghead - Posted - 06/03/2011:  07:27:55

"So for those of you that KNOW all the keys and are able to apply theory to them on the fly, How did you get them into your head ?" 

(All the following IMO)  Get them into your fingers first, the head will follow!    As you do scales over time and commit them to muscle memory they cease to be individually named notes and will become blocks and physical shapes of repeating patterns. I personally cannot tell you off the top of my head the names of the sharps and flats for all the keys, I'd have to stop think about it too, but with the fiddle in hand I can rattle off the scale and name the notes as I go. (everyone learns differently, this is a very kinetic approach) The patterns really started to take shape when I began to practice each scale starting on a different finger.  Scales and arpeggios are the best templates to get the fingers into fiddlistic  shapes and patterns and surprisingly,  there are only a few until they start to repeat. (thanks to the way the fiddle is tuned). It's good to know some chord theory and to be able to recognize and hear the changes. Just memorize the names of the 1,4,5 and relative minor chord in the common keys for now. If you want to read music you need to spot the key signature from the number of sharps or flats. (You don't need to know the names of the sharps or flats, you fingers will tell you if you've practiced the scale) Brute force, will power and memorization is vastly under rated these days. Chord knowledge is helpful and it will make more and more sense in context as time goes on. But more importantly - the fiddle is primarily a melody instrument, and while knowledge of chord structure and movement is a good and helpful thing, it's the lessor part of fiddle playing. (IMO) Personally I would focus on learning to think and practice linearly - just like a horn player. I would spent most of my time on scales, arpeggios, tunes in all keys, and in especially, learn and make a study of the various modes embedded within the common major scales since that is where most melodies reside and which applies most directly to fiddle playing.

Edited by - Peghead on 06/03/2011 10:28:03

martynspeck - Posted - 06/03/2011:  10:33:36

quote:

---

Originally posted by Bob L

quote:

---

Originally posted by leather BritchesWhat is the best way to memorize the notes in all keys?

---

Brute force?

---

You know, I tried brute force learning the keys on my fiddle. The luthier said it wouldn't take more than a week to fix it back up.

leather Britches - Posted - 06/05/2011:  05:43:07

Thanks for your input,

    I think I should have mentioned that I fractured two fingers on my right hand and have pins in both of them,

I will not be able to play for at least a month. I tried to hold the bow the pain was too much.

  With that said, I figured this would be an opportune time to exercise some academic concepts and drill some theory into my head.

  luckily i am left handed, so I can write, but I am finding that saying the keys out loud or in my head is working nicely, One thing that 

is really helpful is to stop at the 4th with a small pause and continue with the 5th, that way I can cement the 1,4,5 ( notes ) in my head so building

the I IV V ( chords ) will be easier.

    I realize that I may not use some of these keys in real life, but I feel I may be missing out some tonal color by not applying them.

    I would guess that some of my favorite musicians are quite familiar with all keys.

    I still do not understand the comment " Brute Force " maybe it just refers to repetition?

    Thanks again

    John

Peghead - Posted - 06/06/2011:  10:38:23

John,  I used it to mean rote memorization - like learning multiplication tables. 1,4,5 chords names are easier to remember if you play a chordal instrument,  but some things are useful to have at your disposal even as you continue to understand them. By the way, memorizing the actual names of all the sharps and flats for all the keys is a lot of data and work!  Knock yourself out if you want, but consider just memorizing the generic intervalic steps of the major scale. It's the formula for the notes. Then just apply it as needed to the key you're working in if you need the specific name of a note. Like I said earlier, alot of this is much easier with the instrument in you hands. The intervals for the major scale are:  Root -Whole -Whole-Half-Whole -Whole- Whole- Half. 

Edited by - Peghead on 06/06/2011 10:47:08

wooliver - Posted - 06/06/2011:  14:21:23

Have a look at jazzmando.com, under the heading FFcF or FFcP.

Stands for "Four Finger closed Position or Formation."

Two things of note: 1)You'll have to imagine a fretted fingerboard.

2)As a fiddle player you can only play two strings at once.

The important thing is the pattern(s). I can play in any key, and i wouldn't know a sharp from a flat. But i do hear intervals.

Very sorry about your hand.

Edited by - wooliver on 06/06/2011 14:22:32

FiddlinMikeRolland - Posted - 07/14/2011:  16:07:51

Learning all the keys is a very important skill to learn.  It will free up your playing, especially in jamming situations.  Most importantly, it's not even very hard to do when you already have music theory knowledge for a few chords.  As you mentioned... "For example if I am playing in C or G, I know were all the notes are on the fingerboard, I know the chord triads, chord substitutes, the extension notes"....you already have a lot of good knowledge.  Now, it's only a matter of transposing that knowledge to other keys.  I'll be posting a series of lessons on this on my lesson site, FiddlinMike.com, but I'll give you some of the most important points now.

1. Take all of your scales, arpeggios, licks, etc., that you have for G and C, and try to do them without open strings.  This way, you are playing in 'closed' position, and are no longer tied to certain strings or positions.  Now, you can play all of those licks in other keys without even changing fingerings!

2. To do this, simply take a lick, arpeggio, etc., and locate the 'tonic' note.  So if you're playing a lick in the key of C, find where and with what finger you are playing the C note.  Now, to play the same lick in another key, like the key of D, simply move your hand so that the same finger is on the D note, and now you can play the exact same finger pattern, but now it's in the key of D!

It's a diffiult thing to explain in words, my lesson series will be infinitely more helpful.  As you can probably guess, this will free up your fiddle playing so much because you can take everything you already know and simply apply it to other tunes, licks, and songs.  I hope this helps and gives you a good place to start.  

Fiddlin Mike

FiddlinMike.com

FireandAir - Posted - 08/28/2011:  13:19:09

The Circle of Fifths has already been mentioned ... just remember that every time you hop up a fifth, you add a sharp.  When there are six sharps, then you start notating things in flats, and the flats go away one by one until you're back at C with no sharps or flats.

So start in C -- no sharps or flats.  Up a fifth to G, add one sharp.  Up a fifth to D, add another.  Up to A, add another.  And so on, until F# Major, where you can write it equally using six sharps or six flats (it can also be thought of as Gb Major).  The next key up a fifth is when it becomes easier to notate it in flats, so that's Db Major (the key from hell if you're a viola player) with 5 flats.  Next one up is Ab Major, with four flats.  And so on up each fifth until F Major with one flat, and then like I said above, back to no accidentals at all at C.

I think it was easier for me to learn since I learned on a piano, and everything's all right there spelled out on a keyboard.  I'm a newcomer to strings ... and to the forum.  :-)

Edited by - FireandAir on 08/28/2011 13:50:08

Tom Berghan - Posted - 02/26/2012:  22:02:18

is there a more active way to get the keys in my head?

Yes,
Play major scales everyday, at least in C, G, D, and A

Then play natural minor scales everyday in a, e, b, and d

Then practice finding the notes to a melody that you know in each key. Play it In several different keys. These are good basic exercises for all musicians. You can add more keys after you master the ones mentioned above.

You can try some flat keys:
F major, Bb major, Eb major.

Edited by - Tom Berghan on 02/26/2012 22:05:27

modon - Posted - 02/28/2012:  09:52:22

I think of the scales in terms of a pattern. for instance... a scale starting on the open string would be: open , whole step, whole step, half step... repeated on the next higher string... and so forth. i also try to memorize the arpeggio s as patterns that move around the finger board according to the key being played in. helps me to find the double stop i want.
was this sorta what you mean?

bj - Posted - 03/03/2012:  15:16:45

Learn the notes of all the keys by something other than where the fingers go? Was I supposed to do that? Huh . . .

IdleHands - Posted - 03/13/2012:  05:39:01

I would suggest practicing all the fiddle tunes you play without playing open strings, but rather by using the pinky finger on the string below it. Then you can slide that closed position fingering up and down at will.

bluesviolin - Posted - 03/19/2012:  12:45:44

quote:

---

Originally posted by IdleHands

I would suggest practicing all the fiddle tunes you play without playing open strings, but rather by using the pinky finger on the string below it. Then you can slide that closed position fingering up and down at will.

---

well, I'm not a fiddler, but I thought that fiddle tunes in general were made for open strings. I could see transposing jazz tunes around the circle of fifths with closed strings to get a better knowledge of keys. But fiddle tunes? That ain't quite natural. is it?

IdleHands - Posted - 03/22/2012:  10:09:56

quote:

---

Originally posted by bluesviolin

quote:

---

Originally posted by IdleHands

I would suggest practicing all the fiddle tunes you play without playing open strings, but rather by using the pinky finger on the string below it. Then you can slide that closed position fingering up and down at will.

---

well, I'm not a fiddler, but I thought that fiddle tunes in general were made for open strings. I could see transposing jazz tunes around the circle of fifths with closed strings to get a better knowledge of keys. But fiddle tunes? That ain't quite natural. is it?

---

Im just helping the original poster achieve his goal of learning the different keys, whether his desires are unnatural is something you'll have to take up with him.

Lonesome Fiddler - Posted - 03/22/2012:  12:39:13

When it comes to me and the fiddle, I find there's no reason to truly get caught up in sharps, flats and such, except when I'm reading traditional notation.  After all, there are no frets on the fingerboard.  There are no signposts on the instrument that say, "put your finger here to do an Eb."  Instead, I concentrate on listening to and learning to recognize intervals by ear.  What does it sound like to go from Do to Re?  Or Ti to Do?  Or Do to Mi? 

haggis - Posted - 03/25/2012:  17:44:30

Fiddling now for 3 years. Have played guitar for 50 years.
Long ago I realised the great improvisers were playing so fast that they could not possibly be thinking of the notes in advance of playing them. It was just too fast. How then was it done?
The answer was VISUAL PATTERNS.
Take the major scale. Learn the four patterns it makes on the finger board. Same for your minor scales and your major and minor pentatonic and blues scale patterns.
Sounds a lot but each major scale also contains therein a major pentatonic, minor pentatonics and a blues scale ( add one note) not to mention the useful Dorian and Mixolydian modes among others.
It is much easier to grasp than it sounds. I suggest you learn the major and minor pentatonic patterns first. This is your roadmap. In time you will see that an added note here and there will give you most of the Useful scales you need
I have applied this idea to the fiddle over the last three years to the point that, in sessions I confidently jam along, often only hearing a tune for the first time. Ofcourse there is plenty room for improvement but I think I have the theory cracked It is the technical side of things like speed and articulation I find difficult with this instrument.

martynspeck - Posted - 03/26/2012:  07:00:59

quote:

---

Originally posted by fiddlepogo

I find the trick with fiddle is to remember that it's tuned in FIFTHS.

You are familiar with C and G- great- they are next to each other on the circle of fifths.

D is like G, but played one string higher- the high string goes missing, and you have to learn new fingerings on the string at the bottom.

THEN, A, is like D, but played one string higher- the high string goes missing, and you have to learn new fingerings on the string at the bottom.

THEN, E (if you want to go there) is like A, but played one string higher- the high string goes missing, and you have to learn new fingerings on the string at the bottom.

THEN, B (if you want to go there) is like E, but played one string higher- the high string goes missing, and you have to learn new fingerings on the string at the bottom.

You can do the opposite direction too.

F is like C, but played one string lower- the low string goes missing, and you have to learn new fingerings on the string at the top.

Bb is like F, but played one string lower- the low string goes missing, and you have to learn new fingerings on the string at the top.

Eb is like Bb, but played one string lower- the low string goes missing, and you have to learn new fingerings on the string at the top.

And you could do the same for Ab, Db, and Gb, but I haven't bothered yet.

By learning the next key over in the circle of fifths from a key you know, you really only have to learn one string's worth of new fingerings at a time.

This makes it easier, and gives you maximum "bang" for the amount of time invested.

---

Wow. I missed this when you posted it. This is great stuff. It resonates to since I just learned E by learning Dry & Dusty in E and I really just needed to learn the fingerings on the G string..

bluesviolin - Posted - 03/29/2012:  11:43:15

quote:

---

Originally posted by haggis

 >VISUAL PATTERNS.<

---

just a comment on haggis's post.... yes, this is the way I play. Although for me, it's prolly more of a mental visualization of the patterns. I see the pattern I want more in my minds eye than on the actual finger board.

This is different than thinking/hearing in intervals like Lonesome Fiddler was saying a couple of posts up. Not saying one is better than the other... just different.

"Pattern" thinking works for me for changing keys. I can play (more or less) in any key in any mode just by knowing the applicable Major scale pattern. Same principal would apply to pentatonic & blues scales like Haggis was saying. and all the modes in all the keys covers a lot of different styles of music imo, specially for improv, or just playing along with whatever the Folk guitarist is doing etc.

"Interval" thinking/hearing I'm certain has it's advantages also, but either I'm not wired that way or I've been pattering for so long I can't do any different.

Would be interesting to know other thoughts/opinions on this.

alaskafiddler - Posted - 03/29/2012:  15:23:44

quote:

---

Originally posted by bluesviolin

quote:

---

Originally posted by haggis

 >VISUAL PATTERNS.<

---

just a comment on haggis's post.... yes, this is the way I play. Although for me, it's prolly more of a mental visualization of the patterns. I see the pattern I want more in my minds eye than on the actual finger board.

This is different than thinking/hearing in intervals like Lonesome Fiddler was saying a couple of posts up. Not saying one is better than the other... just different.

"Pattern" thinking works for me for changing keys. I can play (more or less) in any key in any mode just by knowing the applicable Major scale pattern. Same principal would apply to pentatonic & blues scales like Haggis was saying. and all the modes in all the keys covers a lot of different styles of music imo, specially for improv, or just playing along with whatever the Folk guitarist is doing etc.

"Interval" thinking/hearing I'm certain has it's advantages also, but either I'm not wired that way or I've been pattering for so long I can't do any different.

Would be interesting to know other thoughts/opinions on this.

 

 

 

---

 I think in a mental pattern, or shapes of the pattern; not sure if visual is quite it, but I can quickly visualize it. But it is much more like what Lonesome Fiddler, and what Haggis described, in that it is more interval based, rather than sequential scale pattern of steps (wwhwwwh), nor think of how many sharps or flats. I do think of it as a pattern, but a pattern of intervals, which might also be viewed as creating shapes. But I really don't think much on each interval. Primarly based on the triad intervals, root/third/fifth/octave. From where one interval is (which finger placement) then where the others are, which creates a primary shape. The triad notes form the foundation, outline to the shape. It mostly starts with just 2 adjacent strings, where most of the tune is based, but then eventually combines over three and then all 4 strings. Generally I then extend it to the appropriate pentatonic intervals for the mode. Then the fill (which I don't quite include as mental visual). So if the root is on the first finger, the upper fifth is on the first on adjacent string, the third is on the third finger, octave on the pinky. Which makes sort of a (geometric?) shape. The pentatonic, fills in that space, then the other two. I also go from the tonic to a lower fifth. I usually extend or combine at least two shapes together as more of one, to try and cover about 2 octaves, and might start with the fifth. With that shape(s) it's easy to play anywhere on the fingerboard. There are not that many shapes.

Some of this might be due to I played chord instruments, which was making finger shapes; but I also approach music this way, like in singing (which offers no visual shapes), using the the triad as the foundation, then pentatonic to where the notes are.

Edited by - alaskafiddler on 03/29/2012 15:32:02

haggis - Posted - 04/02/2012:  06:36:30

Patterns also make it much easier to get up the neck. You want to play in C# ? Simply finger that note with your fist finger and play the relevant pattern towards the bridge. 2nd or 3rd finger on tonic ( C# in this case ) will give you patterns which in part play towards the nut and in part towards the bridge ( if you get my meaning?) Pinky on the tonic and the pattern will play towards the nut. 4 fingers = 4 patterns . That is the rough idea with one or two open string exceptions which you can figure out.

boxbow - Posted - 04/02/2012:  09:50:12

I use partial patterns, I think.  In the key of "Bb," for instance, I just try to remember that the Bflat on the A string is just a half-step up from the nut.  When I play in the key of "D," I don't have to think about it, because there's nothing to think about, but when I need that C# on the G string, I'm thinking about the stretch.  In the key of "E," I'm quickly reminded that, on the D string, the D# and the Enat both use the first finger, or something equally funky, and I'd best be paying attention there, however I'm going to get it done.  Other than special cases, I'm probably just going by intervals.  I still haven't come to terms with the "thinking" while playing.  Thinking, for me, puts the tune at risk, it slows me down or makes the tune come out all chunky and contrived - a series of notes instead of a musical phrase.  I know I must be thinking at some level, but I don't dare get too deliberate about it.