Tennessee Tom - Posted - 03/21/2011:  12:33:28

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I put together this "cheat sheet" for pentatonic scales in 3 selected keys. I try to memorize a few of them because they can come in very handy for improvising at jams. I was hoping to solicit constructive criticism, checks for accuracy, and to share with anyone else who may find this chart useful.

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Edited by - Tennessee Tom on 04/15/2011 17:21:43

Pentatonic Scale Cheat Sheet

FiddleJammer - Posted - 03/21/2011:  15:50:43

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Should I recognize any open strings?

Good effort on this. Isn't it a nice way to exercise your understanding like this?

Thanks for sharing it.

Dick Hauser - Posted - 03/21/2011:  16:09:34

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When I think of the pentatonic scale, I realize the 4th's and 7th's aren't included.

I realize that the pentatonic scale is useful when a chord progression includes extended chords. Dropping those 2 notes reduces chances of dissonance. After I have learned the tune, I stop thinking about which scale it uses. When someone asks that question, I usually have to play a couple of measures to remember which key a tune is in.. Now, if I had listmember Ivan Rorick's courage, and would try to improvise a tune with a more complex chord progression, I might try to use this scale.

Here is question for "Tennessee Tom". I have asked other people this question, but nobody ever actually answers the question. Say I am trying to improvise a more advanced chord progression using the pentatonic scale. The tune is in the key of "D". What do I play when the melody includes a "C" or "G" note ? Do I substitute rests, play the notes as accidentals, or what ? Do I just use the pentatonic scale when playing the notes for the accidental chord ?

If someone explains this to me, I will start using the blues and pentatonic scale more often.

Tennessee Tom - Posted - 03/21/2011:  17:14:37

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FiddleJammer: Thanks for your kind remarks. As for the "open strings," those notes all exist in the respective diatonic scales, with the exception of the open G in the A scale. That is why I left the open G blank for that case of A scale.

Dick Hauser: I agree that the pentatonic scale does not cover all bases. It works very well for music that is "pentatonic" in nature. Also, we do not necessarily try to imitate the melody when improvising this way. It just gives a way to play something that is correct for a tune, and the beauty of it is you don't even need to know the tune! But for those cases where we do run into those "other" chords/notes, then one must use arpeggios to get it right. That requires learning the arpeggios, and also knowing what chord you are in at that particular instant. But the pentatonic scale is a good place to start, IMO.

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Edited by - Tennessee Tom on 03/21/2011 17:18:14

drnathan747 - Posted - 03/21/2011:  18:48:50

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Tennessee Tom-- thanks for sharing. Looks like some great information.

Nathan

Leon Grizzard - Posted - 03/22/2011:  03:31:26

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quote:

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Originally posted by Dick Hauser

When I think of the pentatonic scale, I realize the 4th's and 7th's aren't included.

I realize that the pentatonic scale is useful when a chord progression includes extended chords. Dropping those 2 notes reduces chances of dissonance. After I have learned the tune, I stop thinking about which scale it uses. When someone asks that question, I usually have to play a couple of measures to remember which key a tune is in.. Now, if I had listmember Ivan Rorick's courage, and would try to improvise a tune with a more complex chord progression, I might try to use this scale.

Here is question for "Tennessee Tom". I have asked other people this question, but nobody ever actually answers the question. Say I am trying to improvise a more advanced chord progression using the pentatonic scale. The tune is in the key of "D". What do I play when the melody includes a "C" or "G" note ? Do I substitute rests, play the notes as accidentals, or what ? Do I just use the pentatonic scale when playing the notes for the accidental chord ?

If someone explains this to me, I will start using the blues and pentatonic scale more often.

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I'm not Tennessee Tom, but I'll take a whack. First, even tunes that are strongly major pentatonic are not 100% so; there usually are a passing note here or there, and you can do the same. Even if you use those two other notes of the major scale, if you are just using them as passing notes here and there, you will still sound pentatonicky. Second, the typical use of the major pentatonic is using the major pentatonic scale with the same root as the major chord of the moment; ie G major pentatonic over G chord, etc. and that will cover a lot of instances where your D tune has the other two notes of the major scale. This also works for non-key chords, such as an E chord in a D tune; use the E major pentatonic. Using all major pentatonic scales like this sounds a little bland sometimes, but it also has a distinctive and characteristic Country or Old Time sound and is a good way to follow the chord of the moment, and avoid clams.

Your C note in a D tune will almost always be the 7th of a D7 chord, and so stick with D major pentatonic if that is the case, or it will be a mixolydian sound, and so you could use the C major pentatonic.

As a final note, the major pentatonic scales of the same roots as the the three major chords of the a major key, the I, IV and V chords, such as D, G, and A in the key of D, are all comprised of the notes of the parent major scale. That is, in the key of D, the D, G, and A major pentatonic scales are all comprised of the notes of the key of D.

bluesmode - Posted - 03/24/2011:  11:32:55

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and to put it a bit differently... same notes in a Gmaj. pent as an Emin pent. Dmaj = Bmin, Amaj = F#min and so on. For a Gmaj/Emin, throw in the Bb note and you've got the blues scale for both major & minor. So Lessee, for Maj. blues scale would be a b3, and for min blues scale would be a b5. I think that's correct, yes?

Anyways, interesting to see the visual on how those diagonal lines cut straight thru the non pentatonic notes. I'm finally getting to the point where I can visualize on the fingerboard all the maj & min patterns for the pent & blues scales in all 12 keys. For the more common keys almost instantly and for some less common keys, takes me a few seconds longer. Of course playing them all with good intonation etc. etc. can be a different story.

and to take it just a step further, all these patterns can go right up the finger board in a never ending circle (kinda, if you know what I mean)

alaskafiddler - Posted - 03/25/2011:  03:46:41

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My suggestion is if it's for beginners, you might want to consider making it simpler. I have come up with similar diagrams for teaching the basics of fiddle tunes, (that went along with some actual fiddle tunes) not so much for improvising. I started with something very similar, but many students thought it still confusing, so I came up with somewhat different. Since mine was more designed for more beginners, didn't include information they didn't need, such as the notes not used. I got rid of any lines other than the strings. I color coded it to make the pattern pop out, and grayed the lines. All you see is really just the notes you need. I used a very visual representation, to scale diagram, so the student really had a clear visualization of spacing. They could actually put their fingers to it and be close. I had different charts for different keys of D, A, G; The simple version didn't include the doubled 4th finger, just the b note. Actually for some students I have an even simpler charts for D and A that just use the A and E string, and tunes that will fit just those notes, like Angeline. Then I added other notes, the fourth and seventh, still showing the colored pentatonic, shaded other notes a different color.

If I can figure out how to post this graphic I will.

What you are representing is the pentatonic scale is derived from the diatonic scale, subtracting out the 4th and 7th. I use it to show the pentatonic is the basis that you build the diatonic on. I feel if you have a strong solid feeling for the pentatonic relations, it will help understand more complex.

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Edited by - alaskafiddler on 03/25/2011 03:52:05

Tennessee Tom - Posted - 03/25/2011:  07:33:47

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quote:

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Originally posted by bluesmode


Anyways, interesting to see the visual on how those diagonal lines cut straight thru the non pentatonic notes.

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Yes, that is the main reason I made the diagrams. I can create the diagram myself from what knowledge I already have. But to recall it quickly while playing is not so intuitive. The visual constellations help get it to speed.

Tennessee Tom - Posted - 03/25/2011:  07:36:20

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quote:

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Originally posted by alaskafiddler



If I can figure out how to post this graphic I will.

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Would be a nice addition to this thread.

bluesmode - Posted - 03/25/2011:  10:14:47

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quote:

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Originally posted by alaskafiddler

I feel if you have a strong solid feeling for the pentatonic relations, it will help understand more complex.

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I agree with you Alaska. I also think the pents are good discipline for finger interval spacing, specially if you learn to do them on both open and closed strings.

alaskafiddler - Posted - 04/15/2011:  21:46:24

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Having fun with the table tool. Here are some diagrams similar to I came up with to teach beginners the basics of pentatonic scales. The darker shades are the first notes we concentrate on. Also highlighted the triad notes of the key.

The key of D-

			1	2L	2H	3		4
e			f#	g		a'		b
a			b	c	c#	d		e
D			E		F#	G		a
G			A		B	C	C#	D

 

The key of G

			1	2L	2H	3		4
e			f#	g		a'		b
a			b	c		d		e
D			E		F#	G		a
G			A		B	C		D

 

The key of A. I left the 7ths clear, as many A tunes use a flat 7th.

			1	2L	2H	3		4
e			f#	g	g#	a'		b
a			b		c#	d		e
D			E		F#	G	G#	a
G			A		B		C#	D

The one I originally did was an exact graphic of the fiddle neck and I left them uncolored. I (or the student) would color them in based on what I was teaching.

krudolph - Posted - 05/15/2011:  12:14:16

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quote:

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Originally posted by alaskafiddler

Having fun with the table tool. Here are some diagrams similar to I came up with to teach beginners the basics of pentatonic scales. The darker shades are the first notes we concentrate on. Also highlighted the triad notes of the key.

The key of D-

			1	2L	2H	3		4
e			f#	g		a'		b
a			b	c	c#	d		e
D			E		F#	G		a
G			A		B	C	C#	D

 

The key of G

			1	2L	2H	3		4
e			f#	g		a'		b
a			b	c		d		e
D			E		F#	G		a
G			A		B	C		D

 

The key of A. I left the 7ths clear, as many A tunes use a flat 7th.

			1	2L	2H	3		4
e			f#	g	g#	a'		b
a			b		c#	d		e
D			E		F#	G	G#	a
G			A		B		C#	D

The one I originally did was an exact graphic of the fiddle neck and I left them uncolored. I (or the student) would color them in based on what I was teaching.

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So I’m a beginner learning by ear and am trying to figure out the3 scale thing.  If you example of key of D:

1. 
    Does the number one stand for finger used? 


2. 
   The l and h are low and high?


3. 
   I’m sorta not seeing the difference in the examples.

Like I said, I’m a beginner trying to make sense of things!  I appreciate your help.