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wjm52358 - Posted - 02/05/2012: 14:44:15
Thank you for helping me. It's good to know this about mah fiddle!
yunis - Posted - 02/10/2012: 15:25:40
Do William Lewis and Son have different label designs?
I tried taking pictures of the label on my violin... here are the best ones I could get...
yunis - Posted - 02/10/2012: 15:39:14
I'll describe according to the 2nd picture... it says The Lewis and son (and son in small letters on the lower right)
the small words under it say Made in Germany
Lower it says The William Lewis & Son
on the right end of the label is written Mod 100 4/4 and on it... (can hardly be seen on the 4th picture) and then it has the numbers 16130 it seems to me that its stamped,
* but I cant really tell if its printed or stamped...
fishingcat - Posted - 02/11/2012: 02:47:54
@ yunis — See the 8th (joe147) and 9th posts on page one of this thread.
~ Gwen
yunis - Posted - 02/11/2012: 09:31:57
thanks Gwen!
I hadnt seen those posts, it was very helpful!
coelhoe - Posted - 04/07/2012: 08:01:38
We have had several discussions about the general sorts of dating that can be done based on the phrase "Made in Germany." this typically relates to instrument made before 1939, probably before 1936, but not before 1872. I know that doesn't help a lot but it does provide some dividing lines.
About half of the above photobucket urls do not work.
w0ndrw0mn - Posted - 07/02/2012: 19:11:00
I have as follows :
Ton-Klar
The Dancla
Made in Germany expressly for William Lewis an Son Chicago , Illinois
No. 126 4/4
10579
I have the pictures in
my album
Edited by - w0ndrw0mn on 07/02/2012 19:22:42
spoon - Posted - 07/20/2012: 06:24:29
Just to add the my Ton Klar to the database as it were.
Ton-Klar
The Dancla
Made in Germany expressly for William Lewis an Son Chicago , Illinois
No. 126 4/4
Looks like the one above that was dated in the early 60s.
Pics are from the Ebay listing. I'll try to get some shots of the label later.
I just received it from seller and it is at the luthier to be set-up due to the sound post out being out. Hardly played, no damage, nice fiberglass hard case. Bausch bow needs a staightening and a rehair. Dried rosin all over. I polished it with some Stellling Instrument polish and it looks nice. Finish seems a bit thick. Luthier told me to pick up a new Bridge blank and Heilcore H310 meds w/ unwound E that is what most players use in our area and he recommends them. Bridge was worked badly and he stated and would sound real shrill. Luthier thought it would make a good fiddle for me.
Edited by - spoon on 07/20/2012 06:25:43
spoon - Posted - 07/20/2012: 06:27:05
quote:
Originally posted by spoon
Just to add the my Ton Klar to the database as it were.
Ton-Klar
The Dancla
Made in Germany expressly for William Lewis an Son Chicago , Illinois
No. 126 4/4
Looks like the one above that was dated in the early 60s.
Pics are from the Ebay listing. I'll try to get some shots of the label later.
I just received it from seller and it is at the luthier to be set-up due to the sound post out being out. Hardly played, no damage, nice fiberglass hard case. Bausch bow needs a staightening and a rehair. Dried rosin all over. I polished it with some Stellling Instrument polish and it looks nice. Finish seems a bit thick. Luthier told me to pick up a new Bridge blank and Heilcore H310 meds w/ unwound E that is what most players use in our area and he recommends them. Bridge was worked badly and he stated and would sound real shrill. Luthier thought it would make a good fiddle for me.
Pics make it look more red than it really is in person it is more a subdued hue.
coelhoe - Posted - 07/22/2012: 08:02:52
Made for the low-end schools market. Heavy construction and finish so as to minimize repairs. Lots of these around as kids quit orchestra and the parents sell the instrument at yard sales. Hard to make them sound decent.
marblerye - Posted - 10/05/2012: 20:43:52
Hello, Franciscus, All,
This was such an interesting thread. Franciscus, I have the same situation with a violin I just purchased. There is also a label indicating the violin was made for William Lewis & Son. I don't care about the worth of the instrument, but it's history would be enjoyable to know. I have been without one for about a year and am just really itching to play again. I hope you are enjoying your violin.
Mustang - Posted - 10/30/2012: 09:35:17
Hello! I was wondering if anyone could give me some information on my violin? I'm getting a new violin, so I'm planning on selling my current violin and would like to know the value of it.
The label reads:
Anno 1994
The Artisan Signature
Model 82 - 4/4
made in KOREA expressly for Wm. Lewis & Son
Elkhart, Indiana
088579
Thanks!
Franciscus - Posted - 10/18/2013: 13:15:16
Hello folks! Allmost two years ago (as the title of one extraordinary book says: "A year passes, a day never") from my first post here, where I ask for the help in dating the Lewiss and son's fiddle with the mess of conflicting labels. I've got the help and thanks for that. Today, I'd like to show how this violin looks now and to say that it (or she, I never know if violin is "it" or "she") is full-time employed by the 15 years old son of my friend (musical school's student) . Here are some pictures, randomly (OK, not completely randomly) chosen:
I put on the violin its old bridge, original chinrest, soundpost was in place, installed 4 new fine-tuners and set of perlon StartRightStrings. Bought on eBay the chinese pernambuco bow for 35 bucks and copy of Viva la Musica shoulder rest for some 4 bucks (free shipping) and finished with one, IMHO, decent student set. Enjoying in this "job", I fell in love with this violin, so when it's gone to its new home, I bought the other one William Lewiss and Son violin (116 bucks on eBay - accepted best offer + 70 bucks shipping to Bosnia). Here are the pictures:
What I want to ask here is to help me to find out the approximate date of its manufacturing, if someone of you wants and can help me. In order to make that possible, I tried to make a few pictures of label (BTW, seems that Nokia E72 works as pretty capable device for this job, wit the flash located side-by-side with the lens). Here are these pictures:
Please, excuse me for this post so heavy loaded with pictures, but I did not know how to say everything I want on differrent way. Kindest regards to all of you.
skyvio - Posted - 11/24/2013: 20:39:48
I'd like to know the year this was made, haven't seen many with a 2 digit serial no. This one states its #0030. Would love any information on it. Also what is the difference between a 4/4 and a 3/4. I am absolutely new to Violins but my daughter has been playing for almost 2 years and I just bought her this one. Cost me $66 hoping I got a good deal.
Edited by - skyvio on 11/24/2013 20:43:47
Scruff382 - Posted - 12/02/2013: 19:55:38
Sorry to be such a later-comer to this conversation, but I've just bought a William Lewis & Son violin and I'm wondering when it was made.
I've read the posts in this thread, and my label is actually a little different. I'll try to attach pics. One label, bass side.
Made Expressly For
William Lewis and Son
Chicago, Illinois
In Germany
The logo is different from those described above, looks like a pegbox & scroll. The number stamped in it is 2523. It also has 14" handwritten on the label in blue ink, with the German 1. There is no mention of a specific maker or model.
I'd love to find out whatever I can about this instrument. I'm not so much interested in a dollar value, as just knowing its history. My guess is prewar, maybe 1920s. But it could have been made in 2005, for all I know. Thanks in advance for whatever y'all can tell me.
Scruff382 - Posted - 12/04/2013: 17:00:08
I'm guessing this isn't that active a forum these days.
skyvio - Posted - 12/07/2013: 20:45:38
I also am assuming this is not active anymore was really hoping for some history on my violin.
fishingcat - Posted - 12/07/2013: 21:25:32
Chores take priority over online forums, folks! That goes about triple when there's 9 inches of snow (normal — NONE) and single-digit temps (normal — above freezing every day and rarely below freezing at night). Hold your fiddles, durnit!!!
skyvio, yours was made in 1974. (BTW, I own 15" viola # 0093 — reasonably made and nice-sounding, but not as responsive as I'd like, so she's an eventual candidate for regraduation, something that is usually financially impractical for a fractional fiddle.)
Resale value on fractional (less than full-size) instruments is terrible; I'm guessing that you'll be able to sell yours for around what you paid (as long as it's still in decent condition by then) so you did OK — renting costs more! If your daughter is/stays very petite and/or has small hands with skinny fingers, the 3/4 size could serve her for a while.
Scruff382, what you have is a 14" viola. It can be strung as a fiddle (violin) with no problem if that's what you choose to do. It may or may not sound "happy" being a fiddle; try it and see. Some of these had deeper ribs on the viola counterparts than the 4/4 violins (also 14"); some did not. Based on current information, I would put the date at around 1955-1958 (just before the Ton-Klar line and labels).
~ Gwen
Scruff382 - Posted - 12/08/2013: 00:23:16
Gwen, you're awesome! Thanks for the info! I suspected that this is a viola, because of the 14" marking and because it sounds just a little throaty for a violin.
Again, thanks!
Franciscus - Posted - 12/09/2013: 03:21:21
Gwen, you are incredible source of invaluable information. You already helped me once regarding identification of "135" Lewis violin and you can see how it is look like now in my previous post (post 13 at page 3), and I want to ask you, if you could be se kind, to look at the second W.Lewis violin in this post ("126") and to tell me, if you know that, the time when it was made. I have already set it up and I will post some pictures here as soon as I my daughter return my camera to me. Beside, everything goes upside down these days: there's no even traces of snow (normal — 10 inch min.) and wonderful warm sunny weather (normal — deep freezing 24/7). Gwen, thanks a lot in advance! The others, you are welcome to help if you can. Warm (really) regards to all of you here from Bosnia, Franc
spike5592 - Posted - 02/17/2014: 19:43:10
hello. i am in search of a selmer lewis WL126E4 full size 4/4 violin. the label on the inside read dancla 2000 and i believe also included something about chicago. this is really important to me, i had mine for 12 years and my ex sold it while i was at work. i know i wont find mine but hoping to find another like it. i purchased mine through cascio interstate music. if you know anything or can help in any way i would truly appreciate it. i have been looking for over a year now. thanks so much for your time.
MN Mom - Posted - 02/27/2014: 08:36:03
My suggestion would be to set up an account on eBay, then create an alert for the violins you'd like to look at. For instance, I found this listing on eBay just now: ebay.com/itm/Conn-Selmer-W-M-L...240375194
While this may not be the exact style you are looking for, it gives you an idea of what can show up on eBay.
Good luck to you.
MN Mom - Posted - 02/27/2014: 09:08:01
Hello, all. Gwen, I hope you are still following this discussion. You should really write a book.
Here's my story. I brought home my brother's viola, since he no longer plays. My intention is to take it to a luthier - minimally, this thing needs new strings and a new bridge, but appears to be in otherwise great shape. It could also use a better case.
How soon this fellow goes in to the luthier depends on what its value is. I know the luthier can tell me this, but it's been a long, cold, icy winter, and if I can put off the long trip until spring really does hit, I'd like to.
Here's what the label says: Ton-Klar Dancla 2523 16. Way off to the right it has 0229. Made in Germany expressly for William Lewis and Son.
I know my brother was taking lessons on this instrument in the early 70's. Any and all other information I can get about this instrument would really be appreciated. Thanks so much
Edited by - MN Mom on 02/27/2014 09:26:09
MN Mom - Posted - 02/27/2014: 10:54:41
Hello, all. Gwen, I hope you are still following this discussion. You should really write a book.
Here's my story. I brought home my brother's viola, since he no longer plays. My intention is to take it to a luthier - minimally, this thing needs new strings and a new bridge, but appears to be in otherwise great shape. It could also use a better case.
How soon this fellow goes in to the luthier depends on what its value is. I know the luthier can tell me this, but it's been a long, cold, icy winter, and if I can put off the long trip until spring really does hit, I'd like to.
Here's what the label says: Ton-Klar Dancla 2523 16. Way off to the right it has 0229. Made in Germany expressly for William Lewis and Son.
I know my brother was taking lessons on this instrument in the early 70's. Any and all other information I can get about this instrument would really be appreciated. Thanks so much
John-_Rules - Posted - 03/02/2014: 08:31:29
My viola teacher sold me a viola but I have no information on it, he said it was it was used in the 60's but I am not sure.
the inside sticker reads:
made expressly for William Lewis and son
Chicago, Illinois
in Germany
No. 2524 15"
and on the other f-holes there is a sticker that with the number :5250
becaru - Posted - 03/19/2014: 02:05:12
I am very discouraged by the topic of the Wm Lewis violins. I have one that was made in Germany and is a numbered edition. I took it to an appraiser for insurance purposes. He told me to insure it for not less than $50,000.. By what I have been reading here, the Wm Lewis violins are kind of worthless.
becaru - Posted - 03/19/2014: 02:27:48
I also need to add....the appraiser told me the tuning pegs, which are a three piece type, were not used after 1945. I really thought I had a great find. Now I am not so sure.
Franciscus - Posted - 03/19/2014: 04:27:30
@becaru, could you share some pictures with us? Something appraised for 50,000 is not just ordinary fiddle. Are these pegs of Caspari type?
larrydanna - Posted - 05/05/2014: 21:00:47
Hey guys, I just picked up a violin from a local antique store.
The label with the Circle and Scroll logo says :
Made Expressly For
William Lewis and Son
Chicago, Illinois
in Germany
No 126
Serial no appears to be: 8554.
The metalic tail piece is labeled Otto Jnfeld. (Yes, it is spelled with a 'J' as in Juliet) Both on the sticker label and in the casting.
The neck is out of it, but I will take it to my local repairman this week.
Any information you can share with me will be very much appreciated.
Thank you, all, for your kind attention.
BMat - Posted - 06/12/2014: 10:39:12
Greetings all,
I am hoping to find out any information about my wife's violin. As an action item on her "bucket list", she has begun violin lessons to learn how to play the instrument she inherited from her father. There is one original label, which is fully intact. Description as follows:
On the left there is a drawing of a playing violinist, with very small lettering underneath which says (I believe) Paganini. Below this it says Trade Mark.
On the right, it says: Lewis Orchestra Violin, No. 1, Stradivarius Model, Expressly Made For Wm. Lewis & Son Chicago, Anno 1904.
The bow has pearl inlays & the initials D.R.G.M. on the tension adjuster.
The violin & bow are in quite good shape & my wife just had her first recital.
Any information will be greatly appreciated.
Brian
DougD - Posted - 06/12/2014: 13:00:32
D.R.G.M. means that the product, or some aspect of it was registered in all states within Germany. Not exactly like a patent or just a trademark, it means that it was protected (in the sense of a copyright) for its design or intended use. Perhaps there is something unique about mechanism, or more likely just the design. You can find more through Google.
The rest seems self explanatory.
BMat - Posted - 06/13/2014: 17:23:11
Thanks for the D.R.G.M. info DougD. This explains the bow's origin.
As to the violin itself, Wikipedia says that Wm. Lewis & Son had many suppliers of their instruments. Nowhere on our label does it state Germany, as many of the previous posters indicate. Does the Paganini drawing give a hint? Or the Stradivarius Model nomenclature? And what does the: No. 1 indicate? Is that a size reference? Still puzzled....
Thanks,
Brian
MN Mom - Posted - 02/06/2015: 09:24:43
quote:
Originally posted by MN Mom
Hello, all. Gwen, I hope you are still following this discussion. You should really write a book.
Here's my story. I brought home my brother's viola, since he no longer plays. My intention is to take it to a luthier - minimally, this thing needs new strings and a new bridge, but appears to be in otherwise great shape. It could also use a better case.
How soon this fellow goes in to the luthier depends on what its value is. I know the luthier can tell me this, but it's been a long, cold, icy winter, and if I can put off the long trip until spring really does hit, I'd like to.
Here's what the label says: Ton-Klar Dancla 2523 16. Way off to the right it has 0229. Made in Germany expressly for William Lewis and Son.
I know my brother was taking lessons on this instrument in the early 70's. Any and all other information I can get about this instrument would really be appreciated. Thanks so much
Hello, All. I thought I'd get back to this in the hope that what I learned will help someone else. I finally brought this fellow into a Luthier and had it cleaned up. Their off-the-cuff estimate was between $300 and $400 dollars. I have to say, however, that for a $400 viola, it does have a big, pleasant voice. Blessings on you.
faithwalk - Posted - 02/06/2015: 15:00:35
Here's a violin that I'm working on right now. I took the top off to cleat some long top cracks and to repair a hole in the rib. Any thoughts on this one?
I doubt it's valuable with the repaired smashed in rib and the top cracks. And someone had scraped on the top from the outside ...in the center area.... probably to thin the wood a little.... may be to improve the tone? Anyhow, it wasn't done very nicely and the the wood wasn't sealed before putting varnish on it. I could take a photo of the top if someone wants to see it.
There's quite a bit more work to do on it before it will be playable. But I'm hoping it will sound good.
hurdy_gurdyman - Posted - 02/13/2015: 16:21:37
I have a Dancla that looks the same as the second one Franciscus shows with an identical label except there is no 4/4 (or any other fraction) following the number 126. The serial number is 1365. I would be curious when this one was made. Has a nice resonant tone, a bit on the this nasal side, but not much volume. Enjoyable to play with vision strings on it. Perfect living room instrument.
Dave
Mutsumi - Posted - 04/15/2015: 21:11:45
Hi all! I'm not sure if anyone will read this, but, I was curious as to what the aspects and such of my violin are. I always wanted to play it, but unfortunately, my school didn't lend orchestra instruments, and only lent band instruments. So, I settled for flute. Now, I've finally gotten my chance to learn to play the violin. I bought an old, but in good condition, one for $45 at an antique store today. It says this on the tag inside Ton-Klar the Dancla. Made expressly in Germany for William Lewis and Son. No. 126 Chicago, Illinois. 55972. It also has an Aubert bridge, although I'm not sure if it's important to be known.
MN Mom - Posted - 04/17/2015: 08:54:52
quote:
Originally posted by Mutsumi
Hi all! I'm not sure if anyone will read this, but, I was curious as to what the aspects and such of my violin are. I always wanted to play it, but unfortunately, my school didn't lend orchestra instruments, and only lent band instruments. So, I settled for flute. Now, I've finally gotten my chance to learn to play the violin. I bought an old, but in good condition, one for $45 at an antique store today. It says this on the tag inside Ton-Klar the Dancla. Made expressly in Germany for William Lewis and Son. No. 126 Chicago, Illinois. 55972. It also has an Aubert bridge, although I'm not sure if it's important to be known.
Hello: If you go to the very first page of this thread, you will find quite a lot of information on this particular violin model. To sum things up: the Ton-Klar were good student violins with decent voices, but not worth very much. If you have a violin shop nearby, take your violin in and have it examined by the luthier. Usually they will give you an off-the-cuff estimate free of charge.
tktr - Posted - 06/02/2015: 19:27:57
My fiance bought this for me today at a pawn shop. I wiped it down to get the dust off but other than that nothing has been touched. It's missing one string that will be replaced tomorrow. I've read the posts above and think we made an awesome find. Would appreciate any information you might have.Thank you in advance. I look forward to learning to play it.
Well, it won't let me upload my pictures.
The label says:
Ton-Klar
the Dancla
in Germany
for William Lewis and Son
Chicago, Illinois
No. 126 4/4
It has the round emblem above the No. 126 4/4 with an L and "Wm" on one side and "and Son" on the other. There's the number 14542 on the far right side on the label.
I hope this makes sense. Would be so much easier if pictures would upload.
Thank you,
Tisha
RamCast - Posted - 06/27/2015: 06:58:16
quote:
Originally posted by Mustang
…
The label reads:
…
Model 82 - 4/4
made in KOREA expressly for Wm. Lewis & Son
Thanks!
Ouch!
Delighted to know this thread is still active. On the other hand, the info about William Lewis and Son having imported some of their violins from Korea scared me but was extremely helpful as well.
While struggling with painful right-arm and thumb injuries. about six months ago I bought an old, solid student violin with a Scherl and Roth label which turned out to be made in KOREA. Though the instrument is in excellent condition and has a very pleasant and more than acceptable sound and responsiveness—and I'm not as afraid or reluctant to use it as my serendipitously superb Chinese Guarneri Cannone (Bench Copy Deluxe Edition, by Victor Guan, from IS Infinite Strings) because of my unsteadiness with the bow—, the "made in Korea" part of the label sticks in my craw.
(Sorry ff that comes across as racist, it is by no means intended to be.)
Now I was looking at a William Lewis and Son "Dancla" student violin that looks very acceptable and in the same class as the Scherl&Roth, but the seller has not revealed the country of origin yet (I have asked twice). Below is all I can see from the images.
Can anyone detect a hint of "Korea" from those blurry characters.?
Thanks in advance.
Ramón G Castañeda in Northern California (102 miles NE of San Francisco)
Edited by - RamCast on 06/27/2015 07:01:33
RamCast - Posted - 06/27/2015: 22:07:30
Got slightly better images, but no new info. I think I'm giving up on this one. :-(
RamCast - Posted - 08/21/2015: 22:28:21
To becaru (thread starter):
That "appraiser" who told you to insure your violin for no less than $50,000.00 US Cy must have a lot of stock in insurance companies.
The "three-piece" tuning pegs (Caspari pegs) are still being made and put in some student violins these days. That's what William Lewis and Son instruments have always been: primarily instruments for public-schools and such. The referenced pegs make it easier for beginners to tune their violins; they also hold the tuning better once tuned.
RamCast - Posted - 08/21/2015: 22:34:22
The "William Lewis and Son" idea I was contemplating turned out to be a monumentally bad idea. There are vast numbers of new violins being made today that are infinitely better, a few even in the same price range. Sorry.
varnishhawk - Posted - 10/22/2015: 16:05:01
i recently purchased a 16" Ton-Klar Dancla viola circa 1960-1974 for a reasonable price from an old teacher who is also a luthier & string dealer. i purchased a very nice, old Tyrolean violin from him 20 years ago that still plays like a fine Italian. he told me that, even though mine says 'Made In Germany' on the label, that some of the Ton-Klar label violas were sub-contracted out to the Juzek Co. in Prague. i've seen several pics of Ton-Klar Danclas online and mine has a different style & type of varnish. was wondering if anyone else has heard this? thanks!
KCFiddles - Posted - 10/23/2015: 06:11:12
While Juzek offered a lot of models from school instruments through some pretty good trade fiddles, IME nothing labeled Juzek ever looked much like any of the later Lewis offerings. I think it's very unlikely, but you could ask the folks at Metropolitan Music if you want. They sell (own?) the Juzek line.
hd1972 - Posted - 04/11/2016: 09:22:10
Hi there, trying to get an age on my Lewis:
Label left hole says
"The LEWIS"
Made in Germany
William Lewis and Son
on the right side perpendicular to the above is 100 -- 4/4 (handwritten)
No. 2688 (typed)
Thanks many times over for the info!!!!!!
kenbeets - Posted - 05/26/2016: 14:37:10
Greetings all! Can anyone give me an age or value of this one. It's kind of interesting. Maybe a little older than others and the serial number has a 3 but was hand written over with a 2.
Made Expressly for William LEWIS & Son No.168 Chicago, Illinois in Germany
Edited by - kenbeets on 05/26/2016 14:51:21
Page: 1 2 3
Hello, all. Gwen, I hope you are still following this discussion. You should really write a book.
'German fiddle' 1 day
'What's it called?' 2 days
