What is the best way to get your pinkie finger up to speed?Is it to play more tunes in"closed " positions such as Bb or is there a better way known to the experienced ?
When I was learning, I just started making myself play the fourth finger position instead of the higher open string. It will seem awkward at first, but after awhile it'll be so automatic that you won't even think about it. I also worked out of a book that had some exercises specifically for it, and that also helped. Bottom line is just start playing it all the time, and look for opportunities to skip the open string and just play the fourth finger. Patience and persistence.
"The rule is: Use the open string for ascending, the forth finger for descending scales or passages, or when the note in question allows of resting on the string."
Yup and play a drone on the string above until you get your intonation down.... And closed position scales are always good to practice............. never can tell when a capo user is going to put you into Eb ...... R/
"The rule is: Use the open string for ascending, the forth finger for descending scales or passages, or when the note in question allows of resting on the string."
Leopold Auer
I don't think any such rule exists in fiddling, fiddle tunes; as a matter of fact many times you would probably not want to do that.
You build pinkie strength by using it, but it doesn't require closed position keys. One is just playing tunes that use the high B note on the E strong, which exist in quite abundance in the keys of G, D and A. The other is the unison double E (and unison double A) common in A tunes and D tunes.
quote:
Originally posted by alaskafiddler
I don't think any such rule exists in fiddling, fiddle tunes; as a matter of fact many times you would probably not want to do that.
I'm not really sure there is any such rule outside of Leopold Auer, but it's a place to start a discussion. Maybe someone will start us off by defining fiddling, and what rules apply?
"The rule is: Use the open string for ascending, the forth finger for descending scales or passages, or when the note in question allows of resting on the string."
Leopold Auer
I don't think any such rule exists in fiddling, fiddle tunes; as a matter of fact many times you would probably not want to do that.
You build pinkie strength by using it, but it doesn't require closed position keys. One is just playing tunes that use the high B note on the E strong, which exist in quite abundance in the keys of G, D and A. The other is the unison double E (and unison double A) common in A tunes and D tunes.
I was trained as a classical violinist according to Auer's rule.
A few years ago I decided to strenghten my pinkie by playing exercises specifically designed for that pur[ose. It didn't work, and it was unbearably boring. Then I tried something that really, really helped: playing Blackberry Blossom as written in the Fiddler's Fakebook. The B part of the tune has a lot of double stops with the fourth finger on the A string (E) and the first finger on the D string (E). It not only worked; it was also fun.
The unison doubles that you described are very good, too. It is quite challenging because if your fourth finger is just a little bit off, it sounds terrible.
I especially like using the fourth finger for ascending, and for some reason the open string for descending scales or passages. Sometimes the fourth for that, especially if I go up to on one string and then go back down without crossing. I also do what others say with the unison notes as much as possible. Sorry Leopold
I started playing the mandolin a few months ago in addition to fiddle. I use the pinky as much as possible and it has helped me build strength in it. It takes some pinky fortitude to fret those notes.
When I started to use to play unisons with the higher open string that's when my 4th finger started to come into it's own. I almost automatically use a unison drone when I end a part which ends on A, D, or E note.
early on I was given an exercise: play e d e c e b e and check your 4th finger with the open e for being in tune you can move it down on the 3rd and 4th strings too. The high b is a bit harder b/c you don't have an open string to check it with, I sometimes play a low B (1st finger 2nd string) with the high b (4th finger 1st string) to check if It's in tune, but it depends on your low B. Those pesky 1st & 4th finger octaves are a nice thing to have in your arsenal, especially for bluegrass and jazz, but even if you don't play those styles, having that skill improves your overall intonation and skill etc.
in short, focused practice, practice, practice. use it as often as possible
quote:
Originally posted by alaskafiddler
I don't think any such rule exists in fiddling, fiddle tunes; as a matter of fact many times you would probably not want to do that.
I'm not really sure there is any such rule outside of Leopold Auer, but it's a place to start a discussion. Maybe someone will start us off by defining fiddling, and what rules apply?
Well, IMO, overall fiddling is a folk pursuit, as such has not much focused on "rules" other than what ever you need to make work the way you want. Do what you want - it's your fiddle"
There is something though to certain aspects like you describe, but I think more in terms of how it sounds/and the flow of the bow. The sound and flow of a slur on one string; cross string slur, and cross string bow change (and a bit of rocking). All slightly different. I don't think it matters if just ascending or descending. I somewhat had the opposite problem, as I was able to have pretty good pinkie dexterity from early on (I also played guitar and mando), and found it easier to use (esp. slurring it) than crossing strings for some phrases; while it worked okay, later found that using the open cross string was actually better for the sound I was after, as it delineated the rhythm of the notes much better. I find the same issue sometimes with cross tuned AEAE; it can make a difference if I use my third finger vs the open A string; whether I'm cross string or not. I still find I sometimes overuse my pinkie.
quote:
Originally posted by alaskafiddler
Well, IMO, overall fiddling is a folk pursuit, as such has not much focused on "rules" other than what ever you need to make work the way you want.
That seems like a pretty good working definition for this topic.
I learned music by ear, self-taught for the most part. That had its ups and downs. Not sight-reading music was one downside, reinventing the wheel was another. The sight reading is coming along. I have also been reading a lot of violin tutors, old and new. I'm noticing more and more that the "rules" are an amalgamation of what works best for most people, tested over several centuries. That is, what to do to get the best tone and technique in the easiest way. Stuff you could spend a long time figuring out by yourself. So, I'm paying attention to the rules, and mostly liking the results. That includes rules for the pinkie, and practice pieces that have the '4' and '0' annotated. I can guess that you might object, saying that some of classical training goes against traditional playing, but if you understand both, you can pick and choose. That's where I'm at, anyhow.
What is the best way to get your pinkie finger up to speed?Is it to play more tunes in"closed " positions such as Bb or is there a better way known to the experienced ?
lifting and tapping the pinkie, playing music using the pinky, consciously including the pinky instead of open strings where appropriate!
Oh there are rules, and fiddle police and consequences should anyone be unfortunate enough to tangle with them! Of course theres bootlegger fiddlers who ignore the rules and peddle their shine to unsuspecting and otherwise respectable fiddlers. There are no shortcuts people, practice right and when you play the right will right itself and become self evident and thoughtles, which you wont mind. That being said, my third finger started reacting subconsciously to the music when it was his turn. I didnt even have to make a conscious effort to move it, it just went bam right on time. It was so surprising that It caused me to lose my place and start over! ha ha! Practice correctly so that its subconsious in its execution and you can focus on other important aspects such as the right bowing patterns for any given song! Yeah, thats right, I said it! BOWING PATTERNS! now what yall got to say bout that! booya!
@paulinefiddle- Im diggin your vibe, the more I read your comments the more I like you! @addie- you rock, I got your back.
For me it really doesn't have anything to do with ascending or descending. Other than the B on the E string, where you don't have a choice, the reason I use my pinky is to avoid having to change strings for one note. I'm still working on it, but the best thing I've found is to work on tunes where this would come in handy, mainly because I hate exercises. The Blarney Pilgrim is a good one with quite a few opportunities to work the old pinker out.
I have connective tissue damage that doesn't allow me to easily use the pinkie by itself. But if I mirror the motion with my ring finger it works better. In talking about it with a friend who's been playing lots of instruments for a lot of years, she said even undamaged people can benefit from that. Upshot is to not wave the other fingers around while you're using the pinkie. Keep fingers as near the fingerboard as possible whether they're actively in use or not. For me it's a necessity. I can't put my pinkie down if my ring finger is UP! LOL!
You might also find these exercises fun. There are more Greg Irwin vids on Youtube.
I've found that it's always a good idea to try my pinkie when learning to navigate a new tune. Sometimes, it's just easier to play the passage with the pinkie, and other times it's easier with the open string. You might eliminate a bow rock up to the open E by using your pinkie. Maybe the syncopation benefits from having the bow rock, so you stick with the open string. Maybe the tonal qualities of one or the other are better suited to the tune. There are other examples, I just don't care to think of them.
Rules? I laugh at rules, HAH!
All is subordinate to the tune. Learn to use that pinkie! You'll be a better fiddler for it.
My teacher said that the open string is usually out of tune. So that's why the 4th finger is used. I do it.
buy a tooner and toon the thing before you play. if its out of tune so are all the fingerings! The best overall sound is to play the pinky simultaneously with the open string, but that takes a bit o skill.
My teacher said that the open string is usually out of tune. So that's why the 4th finger is used. I do it.
I'm having a hard time understanding this statement.
'A' is tuned (to 440 hz), and the other strings tuned to it, before you ever use your fingers, including the pinkie, to stop notes. Unless your teacher is talking about double stops (Just vs Pythagorean), and not using the open string. But those relationships (Pythagorean vs Just) don't come and go in a whim.
Most tuners are Equal Tempered, i.e. none of the above.
Or am I missing something? I worry when I find marbles and screws on the floor.
My teacher said that the open string is usually out of tune. So that's why the 4th finger is used. I do it.
I'm having a hard time understanding this statement.
'A' is tuned (to 440 hz), and the other strings tuned to it, before you ever use your fingers, including the pinkie, to stop notes. Unless your teacher is talking about double stops (Just vs Pythagorean), and not using the open string. But those relationships (Pythagorean vs Just) don't come and go in a whim.
Most tuners are Equal Tempered, i.e. none of the above.
Or am I missing something? I worry when I find marbles and screws on the floor.
Your open strings should not go out of tune that fast unless they're new or the weather is changing really quickly.
I started back to my simpler toons today in suzuki one and B wicklunds book 1 and started adding the pinkie in more. I spend my first session today getting the pinky posistion committed to muscle memory and found something curious about my intonation in the process. There seems to be a phantom vibration/ sound when I am right on the note. Kinda a "horton hears a who" moment for me and it was happening on all the fingerings. pretty cool cause now like a sonar man seeking a submarine I can now listen and feel for that extra bit when I am noting. has this happened to anyone else. I dont think its the fabled "wolf" tone that Ive heard about. more like an aura around the note. pfish.
My teacher said that the open string is usually out of tune. So that's why the 4th finger is used. I do it.
I'm having a hard time understanding this statement.
'A' is tuned (to 440 hz), and the other strings tuned to it, before you ever use your fingers, including the pinkie, to stop notes. Unless your teacher is talking about double stops (Just vs Pythagorean), and not using the open string. But those relationships (Pythagorean vs Just) don't come and go in a whim.
Most tuners are Equal Tempered, i.e. none of the above.
Or am I missing something? I worry when I find marbles and screws on the floor.
What I thought he meant was your string stretched or you didn't tune it true the first time or you tuned it true but the guitar player is not in tune with you. i always use the open string as a reference when using the pinkie; except when the open string is not in tune. (;>)
Feeds
My pinkie finger.
