I only took time to watch  a half dozen of the Clifftop fiddle competition contestants ( I was Very busy jamming). Out of the six, two were noticeably speeding up as some point during their tune.  It could be expected from someone relatively new to the fiddle but these contestants were quite accomplished.  Maybe it was nerves.  I don't know.  If I noticed poor timing, I'll bet the judges did also.  This served as a reminder to me that 'If I can't play it  along with a metronome, I don't know it". I would freeze up if I had to get on a stage and compete so I'm not faulting them, but rather just point out the importance of good timing. LEE

I have a friend who defines 'good' timing as any way the fiddler wants to interpret the tune. And, if that involves some manipulation of tempo, that's fair game. Just sayin'. Who wrote a rule that a tune can't speed up or slow down?

Sometimes my guitar accompaniment friend speeds up, so I'm forced to as well.

I've seen some fiddlers seeming to deliberately speed up to sorta work up a frenzy...seen it here and there on youtube, not in person ...but I'm wondering f they are going after some effect like Orange Blossom Special... I'm not that into frenzied, speeding stuff, whether its fiddling, cars, boats, etc. I kinda prefer a comfortable trotting pace at the most, but they didn't ever ask e, so I guess they can go on and play it that way if they enjoy that... Lol...but that's my guess!

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Originally posted by FiddleJammer

I have a friend who defines 'good' timing as any way the fiddler wants to interpret the tune. And, if that involves some manipulation of tempo, that's fair game. Just sayin'. Who wrote a rule that a tune can't speed up or slow down?

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Your statement is true generally, no doubt.   I spoke to one of the musicians later.  He said that it wasn't a planned speed up, but he was just not fully prepared. It is common for fiddlers who don't work on a tune's timing to speed up in very notey places.   True, there are times to speed up a tune  but it is usually obvious that it is intentional.  FiddleJammer, I didn't see you at Clifftop.  Were you there?  LEE

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Originally posted by FiddleJammer

I have a friend who defines 'good' timing as any way the fiddler wants to interpret the tune. And, if that involves some manipulation of tempo, that's fair game. Just sayin'. Who wrote a rule that a tune can't speed up or slow down?

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Probably a distinction needs to be made here between "dance fiddling" and "performance fiddling".

Fiddlers - and bands - who are playing for a listening audience often do change the tempo for affect though usually the tempo change is distinct and dramatic.  It's commonly done on OBS.

On the other hand, fiddlers and bands who play for dancers usually try to keep the tempo rock solid throughout the dance because that's what dancers usually want.

And in any event, it's unusual  to change the tempo "gradually" by just speeding up during some part of a tune.  There aren't many good "musical" reasons to do it, so it's usually taken as a sign of poor musicianship.

That said, I've no idea where the Clifftop contest fits into this pantheon.  I'd have thought it would be judged as "dance fiddling" and not as "performance fiddling" because the fiddlers typically play tunes from the dance tradition.  But everything's a bit blurred these days.

--OTJ

Great fiddling is rock solid.  It neither speeds up or slows down, either of which will cost points in a contest at Ciifftop or any other sanctioned fiddle contest.  No ifs, and or buts unless the contestant is real good friends with the judges.

FiddleJammer, I didn't see you at Clifftop.  Were you there?  LEE

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Stayed home and played with the visiting grandkids. Quite the enjoyable alternative.  :-)

Next stop, Hamlin, PA on Labor Day weekend.

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Originally posted by leemysliwiec

I only took time to watch  a half dozen of the Clifftop fiddle competition contestants ( I was Very busy jamming). Out of the six, two were noticeably speeding up as some point during their tune.  It could be expected from someone relatively new to the fiddle but these contestants were quite accomplished.  Maybe it was nerves.  I don't know.  If I noticed poor timing, I'll bet the judges did also.  This served as a reminder to me that 'If I can't play it  along with a metronome, I don't know it". I would freeze up if I had to get on a stage and compete so I'm not faulting them, but rather just point out the importance of good timing. LEE

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No doubt nerves plays a part in such things, and could have been a factor, even with good players. Contestants often are selecting tune versions that push their abilities. Another factor is that many fiddlers aren't used to playing solo. Many fiddlers are not used to being the metronome themselves, instead are used to relying on others (like a guitar) to be the metronome, keep them honest, as well as let them recover slight gaffs. A good practice for solo, is in using some software metronomes that can be programmed to drop to silent mode for a certain number of measures.

What type of speeding up, and by how much? I think of timing, tempo and rhythmic feel, while related, are a bit different.

It is not unusual for the tempo to be slightly different by the last time through a tune, generally faster. As a contest judge I've never dinged for just that, as long as it seems natural and in control. Even at dances, nobody really cares if it ends at the exact same bpm it started. As well, being dead on to the metronome for every beat/click is not what's directly evaluated.

It's not unusual for even good players that timing and/or tempo solidness to be a little shaky at first, and then get very solid after. One factor is synchronizing, not only with other players, but individually with ones internal metronome. Happens a lot at contests.

And then there is the other factor in perception; sometimes the way the player is playing, it sounds like it is faster (or slower) that the tempo changed, when it did not.

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Originally posted by RobBob

Great fiddling is rock solid.  It neither speeds up or slows down, either of which will cost points in a contest at Ciifftop or any other sanctioned fiddle contest.  No ifs, and or buts unless the contestant is real good friends with the judges.

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 I have to agree. At Clifftop I watched the final 5. All were good,very good. The fiddler from the last band (Bucking Mules from Tennesee?) had impeccable timing. The man was right on, smooth as can be. I thought to myself they have it, and in fact they did.

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Originally posted by RobBob

Great fiddling is rock solid.  It neither speeds up or slows down, either of which will cost points in a contest at Ciifftop or any other sanctioned fiddle contest.  No ifs, and or buts unless the contestant is real good friends with the judges.

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One of the few criticisms that I hear judges level at players on the contest circuit is that they don't hold time, or "break" time. Solid timing appears to be pretty important in national level contests, and in state level contests here in the Missouri / Oklahoma / Texas area at least.

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Originally posted by FiddleJammer

I have a friend who defines 'good' timing as any way the fiddler wants to interpret the tune. And, if that involves some manipulation of tempo, that's fair game. Just sayin'. Who wrote a rule that a tune can't speed up or slow down?

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Maybe true, but it's kind of a drag when you're playing with other people.

Well, this has me thinking. I gotta play devil's advocate on this one. If a fiddler wants to muck with tempo in a performance piece, I'd have to say there might be times when this is just the right thing to do. In the name of artistry. Or, what if they were playing a tune that an old dead guy like to speed up or slow down. What part of the rules take precedence? The 'staying true to the version' measure or the 'artistic interpretation' yardstick? I dunno. Seems like the contest rules are a little stodgy.  :-)

If you check out my blog archive, you will find an entry called "52 ways to tell if your musical timing is bad".  Now I can add number 53 which will read, "If you play your heart out at the Clifftop competition and still don't win, you may have bad timing.".