I am just starting out playing fiddle and have played guitar for 50 yrs. +, but wondered before I get too far into learning the fiddle if it would be better to start off learning to play reading standard notation. I'm 60 and would like to fast track as much as I can to learn to play and tab has worked really well for me learning the banjo and mandolin. I'm sure there are equal members in both camps but wondered if it will hinder me to go with just tab.

Thanks, Dave

Hey Dave..do yourself a favor and learn to read music

Hi Dave,

If you're interested in being able to read fiddle music, I would definitely suggest learning standard notation.  I haven't seen much fiddle music in tab, although you may be able to use mandolin tab.

Jason

Edited by - mossyfiddle on 07/21/2012 05:38:51

Standard notation would be the route, imo. How well do you do "by ear", though? A fair number of fiddlers learn fiddle music mostly by listening, and back that up with modest reading skills.

superdave, I'm in the same boat as you. I played guitar all my life, almost entirely by ear. I feel I held myself back and could have learned much more had I learned to read music. So when I started playing fiddle a few years ago, I insisted to my teacher that I wanted to learn to read music, and learn it well. It really has been a fast-track ever since. She told me I was playing at a two-year level after my first full year. I still teach myself some songs by ear when I can't find music, but it's WAY faster to learn a new song when you can read music. As I learn to sight-read and play, I can sometimes play through a song from start to finish on the first try, and that puts me way ahead of learning by ear, which takes a lot of fiddling around. 

I endorse learning notation, especially on bowed instruments.
However, old time fiddle tunes have been handed down from generation to generation by ear, by listening, by example.

At Maine Fiddle Camp that is how we learn tunes. Although I read standard notation rather well, at fiddle camp leave your music and stand home; we learn by ear and by repetition there.

I have played guitar and banjo using tabulature. When playing fiddle using standard tuning (i.e. GDAE), notation has worked best. I think it is easier to see the melodic "flow" of the notes. Reading basic notation isn't that difficult. I think a player should become familiar with scale theory first. There are lots of common 4 note patterns in fiddling. Eventually you will learn to quickly recognize and play these common patterns.

After I learned notation on the fiddle, I started flatpicking guitar tunes using notation instead of tabulature. I still used tab for some guitar tunes, but could play most tunes using notation.

Playing by "ear" is also important. I think a player benefits when they can read notation AND also play by "ear".

in my case i have tryed to read music and have not been able to remember what notes go to what song. i have done good reading TAB at least with TAB i can play songs can,t keep my eyes on the notes i use to play by ear and still do i have played guitar for 40 years and some fiddle

Maybe I should clarify. I have read music all my life since playing the guitar at 9. It's just that tab worked so well for banjo and mandolin I figured that maybe it would work for Fiddle but after looking a few fiddle beginner books it appears that most support learning by std. music notation. Thank you all for your sage advise and now I'm off to Elderly to see what I can find.

Thanks, Dave

My problem with fiddle tab is, I never know if 1 on the E string means F or F#, as an example.

quote:

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Originally posted by Mandogryl

I endorse learning notation, especially on bowed instruments.
However, old time fiddle tunes have been handed down from generation to generation by ear, by listening, by example.

At Maine Fiddle Camp that is how we learn tunes. Although I read standard notation rather well, at fiddle camp leave your music and stand home; we learn by ear and by repetition there.

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Yep, this covers it for me. I read std notation just well enough to learn a tune from it. But I still use my ears to learn from recordings of the old-timers. I think there's a misconception that those who can read music are perpetually chained to a music stand. Ain't so.

I've used tablature for guitar, but it just dun't work out for fiddle...

my teacher writes it out E string first 1 then she will write in high or low she will write in E--1 h or l this way i know if its 1 high f # or E flat or if she does not say it first finger on the F and your good to go

I dont read music, but most of the best musicians I've known both read and play by ear. Playing by ear trains your ear as well as your fingers, but reading can be handy in learning tunes you've never heard before. at least to develop a baseline on the melody before you add embellishments. thats my 2 cents worth anyway

quote:

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Originally posted by superdave

I am just starting out playing fiddle and have played guitar for 50 yrs. +, but wondered before I get too far into learning the fiddle if it would be better to start off learning to play reading standard notation. I'm 60 and would like to fast track as much as I can to learn to play and tab has worked really well for me learning the banjo and mandolin. I'm sure there are equal members in both camps but wondered if it will hinder me to go with just tab.

Thanks, Dave

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There really isn't proportionally that much in fiddle tab, so it's of limited usefulness.

There are mountains of tunes done in standard notation for fiddle.

Idea:

Take your mandolin, and have someone teach you to read notation with it.

The tuning for mandolin (and fiddle) is so simple and logical, that it makes applying notation REALLY easy (especially for fiddle tunes in the first position... at least compared to instruments like guitar.

You could also break down notation into two aspects- one is VERY important for you, the other less so:

1. Notation contains information about pitches- what note to play.  That is shown mostly by what space or line the note is on, and also by sharps and flats.  IMO, this is the easier part, especially on mandolin.

If you can get this part, you have most of the information you get from tab.

2. Time value- the length of the notes-  that is shown by whether a note is an open circle (longer notes) or a dot (shorter notes) and whether it has a "stem" and what kinds of "flags" are hanging off the stem.  This part is pretty complicated, and when you get into really short notes, very hard to read.  The good news is that a lot of fiddle tunes are mostly just one or two kinds of notes.

Like it's really common to see a fiddle tune with mostly eighth notes and a few quarter notes.  You know all the eighth notes are going to be the same length, and the quarter notes are going to be twice as long.  If you know that, you don't REALLY need to know all the other note value aspects of reading sheet music to make a notated fiddle tune readable for you.

If you supplement your notation reading with a recording, that can help you interpret the timing, just like you really need a recording to help you totally interpret tab.

The problem with the written explanations of reading notation that I remember from school band and stuff, is that they start with the time aspects, which if your brain isn't compatible with that, gives you a STEEP, DISCOURAGING learning curve at the beginning.

I think it would be a lot more natural to teach tunes with say, all quarter notes at the beginning, get people into being able to find the right note of the right pitch, and then gradually introduce notes of different time values as they come up in different tunes.

Oh yeah, most notation methods (or at least the ones I remember seeing) start with a whole note.  That's logical, but the problem is that in a lot of tunes, the only whole note is likely to be the final note, and sometimes they don't occur at all!  So to me, it seems more practical to start with the most COMMON notes, like quarter notes, and then work in BOTH DIRECTIONS toward being able to read both longer AND shorter notes.

Anyway, I think it should be possible to structure teaching notation reading so that there is a big encouraging payoff in the beginning, and the harder and also less frequent things would be added gradually.

Superdave - I agree with your preference for using tab for banjo. I played bluegrass banjo, and I think that a player had to be an exceptionally good melodic banjo player to use notation. Tab also works well on guitar, especially when playing higher positions on the neck. But for the standard tuned fiddle, notation provides a better mental image of the flow of the notes.

Howdy Superdave, welcome to the FHO!

Go ahead and learn notation...just one more useful "tool" to have in the toolbox...you're not choosing "the one true religion," you're just developing a tool to use for your convenience.

(Tabs seem more useful for learning chords on guitars, banjos, mandos, etc....not as useful on the fiddle). JMHO

The more tools you have, the more options you have at your disposal.

Since you already know how to read music, it will be easier to use that for the fiddle than tab, I think.  You will find that the notes lay out very logically on the fingerboard.

I learned to read music when I was in 3rd grade (oh, those many years ago), when I took piano lessons.  I taught myself classical guitar from the Carcassi book, then took tab to the 5 string banjo (I had trouble seeing the 5th string as that high A on the first string.  When I added fiddle, I found notation my best bet.

Besides, with notation you won't have to learn at least 3 different fiddle tab systems.

Edited by - BanjoBrad on 07/23/2012 12:15:17

I agree with just use standard notation. Way, way more material available.

One trick is that for the most part in fiddling, all the notes on spaces are going to be either an open string, or second finger; all notes an lines are going to to be first or third fingers. Might think of it like odds/evens. Every move of two spaces or two lines is another the next string. A trick for the 2L/2H, besides just knowing what key you're in, is for the most common keys (D, A, G, C, Am, Em), for the D/A/E strings, the second finger position is 2L except when indicated by a sharp sign (in the key signature or separate) making it 2H; and in those keys the 1 and 3 fingers generally are modified for the D/A/E strings. I recall there are some other tricks but can't think of them.

I've been doing bluegrass for about 10 yrs. I can play guitar, banjo, bass , mandolin and am getting decent at fiddle.

I can't read one note of music, not one.

In the old bluegrass style , they believe that staring at a piece of paper is a terrible way to learn , and I think they are right.