So one of my favorite past times is to visit junk shops and the like in search of the million dollar violin just gathering  dust in a corner. Okay, so its the thrill of the chase and the capture, LOL. Most of the time the violin is a trade model worth about what you can get for it. All of these if they still have one comes in case that always seemed to be made by the same company.

The inside of the case always seems to have no protective cushioning for the violin but rather a simple piece material covering the paste board or wood case. I've never really thought about until recently. One day I came across some really nice violin cases that would protect the darn things in everything but nuclear blast.  I then begin to wonder why it is I've never seen a really well made violin case for the expensive models made 75 or 100 years ago. Perhaps something with some padding inside to protect the fiddle if the case was dropped 

I would think that the folks who spent a large sum of money even back then would want something that protected their instrument more than the normal run of the mill cases of the day.

Any thoughts?

Rusty Bates

Different mind-set back then. No seat belts for our children, no humidifers for our instruments, no helmets when bike riding. The good ol' days. 

Jude

No, there were very elegant cases made for those fine instruments. Most famous maybe are the cases made for W.E.Hill and sons in London. There happens to be one on ebay right now:  http://www.ebay.com/itm/Lot-PG007-Vintage-Antique-Extremely-Rare-Burl-Walnut-W-E-Hill-Sons-Violin-Case-/200786708691?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2ebfd208d3   They also made the double case Heifetz used.

Glenn Wood has written an interesting book called "The Art and History of Violin Cases." Here's his YouTube channel, with some interesting videos:  http://www.youtube.com/user/GlennYorkPA

I have some old cases, not nearly as nice as the ones in the videos, but better than what you've described.

Edited by - DougD on 07/11/2012 08:14:10

Lots of fiddle browsers just look at the fiddle and ignore the bow. I talked to some collectors and they remarked that they often keep a bow and sell a fiddle for peanuts. Are there any pamphlets/books providing information on bows ?

Here is a nice one I used to own. I picked it up from a vendor at a music festival but have since sold it to a re-enactor that carries two fiddles. I don't even play fiddle but couldn't pass the piece up, the Mahogany is beautiful. The inside has been badly re-felted but was functional. I'm guessing that it would originally have been Green felt.

Some were red, some were green. Some were lined with wallpaper.

Gotta remember, too that most of these fiddle outfits that came with these cases sold for $2 to $5 for fiddle, case, and bow.  Even in 1910, that wasn't a lot of money.

Do you think  the handle was relocated to the side of the case when more secure latches were invented? I'll bet  these cases were still carried under one's arm.

That case doesn't look like it came with a $5 outfit - for one thing its a double case. Whoever relined it might have missed the fact that the bows need to be supported at the tip too! Wonder what that open cylindrical compartment was for?

Seems like most of these old cases had handles on the top, which always seems awkward to me.

quote:

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Originally posted by DougD

That case doesn't look like it came with a $5 outfit - for one thing its a double case. Whoever relined it might have missed the fact that the bows need to be supported at the tip too! Wonder what that open cylindrical compartment was for?

Seems like most of these old cases had handles on the top, which always seems awkward to me.

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Yep - I said most of them, and by far the most of them did.  This case is not only double, it's a lot heavier built, and mahogany instead of black painted poplar. I doubt it was lined with anything better than felt, however.

Bow tip was typically held in a fabric loop tacked to the top, in the cases I've seen. Got a couple in the shop right now.

Dunno what the round hole was for, except maybe strings?

Those are some really nice cases. Yes, I can see why a starter violin outfit would be supplied with a economical case but I suppose I'm wondering if there was any choice other than high end or low end cases? Is some sort of cushioning in the case itself something of a improvement in recent years?
Or perhaps as Jude suggested, folks just didn't worry about such things as much back then.

Doug, thanks for the video links. After posting a few minutes ago I went back look at another one about the history of cases. Quite a eye opener about American cases made back in the earlier part the century. I may have to buy this guy's book.

Rusty

The old fiddle I bought recently from my brother's friend came with an old gator case as well. Has anyone ever seen those?  I actually am not that fond of it because there's no room for much in it and it's hard to get the bow in its holding pace too.

quote: This case is not only double, it's a lot heavier built, and mahogany instead of black painted poplar. I doubt it was lined with anything better than felt, however.

Bow tip was typically held in a fabric loop tacked to the top, in the cases I've seen. Got a couple in the shop right now.

Dunno what the round hole was for, except maybe strings?

 

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Anything thicker than felt and a fiddle wouldn't fit in the double case. I'm guessing that it was made for two specific violins, one compartment was a bit tighter than the other. With the close fit, you really wouldn't need anymore padding, there is very little wiggle room.

The hole in the case seems too small a diameter and awkward for string storage, as well thought out and designed as the the rest of it is. Maybe it was used for a small rolled towel to wipe the instruments down with after playing or a jar of Talcum powder (?).

Edited by - Resophonic on 07/12/2012 08:38:34

Resophonic - I came across this old double case very similar in concept to yours (i.e. no separation between the peghead of one instrument and the body of the other):  http://guyharrison.com/blog/?p=135  It was made for 7/8 size instruments - I wonder if yours was?

Edit - Looking around some more, maybe most double cases are made that way:  http://www.bobelock.com/specialtyCases/1015.html

Edited by - DougD on 07/12/2012 10:30:47

quote:

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Originally posted by DougD

Resophonic - I came across this old double case very similar in concept to yours (i.e. no separation between the peghead of one instrument and the body of the other):  http://guyharrison.com/blog/?p=135  It was made for 7/8 size instruments - I wonder if yours was?

Edit - Looking around some more, maybe most double cases are made that way:  http://www.bobelock.com/specialtyCases/1015.html

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I tried several different 4/4 fiddles in there and the only ones that fit where built to 4/4 standard dimensions as indicated in Strobel's Useful Dimensions for Violin Makers would fit. Don't know anyone with a 7/8's size and I no longer have the case.

Edited by - Resophonic on 07/12/2012 14:05:44

That hole looks like the perfect size to hold a shot glass.  Give the fiddler a dram!

I always thought the fiddles in those old coffin cases were intended to be put in a sack or wrapped in some type of cloth for protection.  I was reading in one the Strobel books (The health of the Violin) about a common damage you see on old violins where at the widest part of the bouts the edge of the top and bottom plates is cracked off down flush with the ribs.  The book said that one of the main causes of this is from violins being carried around in unpadded coffin cases.

Thanks, Bowbag for bringing up the coffin case damage to the bouts.  I just made two coffin cases and now I'm going to make sure that the padding doesn't allow the instrument to get damaged. LEE

quote:

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Originally posted by NCarolinaFiddler

The old fiddle I bought recently from my brother's friend came with an old gator case as well. Has anyone ever seen those?  I actually am not that fond of it because there's no room for much in it and it's hard to get the bow in its holding pace too.

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Doug suggested a YouTube channel, http://www.youtube.com/user/GlennYorkPA earlier in the thread where the gentleman talks about gator cases being made in the 30's and 40's, no doubt many models were sold at a premium.

One of the video's contained a surprise for me, as usual all things new are just old things and ideas found again. The case shape and manufacture completely different than the cheap old coffin cases I've all seen with many old violins.

 You can see the case I refer to in the video "American Violin Cases" around the 2:50 mark. I said "surprise" earlier because  a few months back I came across some violin cases made from some sort of fiberglass or composite resin material. The violin case material itself wasn't a surprise but rather the shape of the case. It was of the normal case shape but then also had an almost shark fin shape across the top. Pretty futuristic looking even to the my 48 year old eyes, they looked pretty cool. Of course now I can't find one on the web that looks similar to the ones I seen a few months ago. LOL

Rusty

Rusty - In answer to your question about whether there were any choices other than high end or low end cases, I've posted some photos on my homepage here of what I imagine would have been the mid level cases of their day:  http://www.fiddlehangout.com/myhangout/photos.asp?id=1709&albumid=1475

They have wood shells, with an overlapping weather seal, good hardware (although the spring loaded "bullet" latches can open unexpectedly), padded plush interior with two accessory pockets and sometimes leather covering. Still pretty serviceable.

Here's one, with my first fiddle in it. I think its leather covered:

Green case open

Green case full

Green case closed

Edited by - DougD on 07/16/2012 09:33:49

Here's another, which was probably the best when it was new. The tag says "Cowhide leather G&S." This has my favorite fiddle in it, and I've traveled quite a bit with it, so its a little beat up. I just cover up the scuffs with liquid black scuff covering shoe polish, and then wax it with clear shoe polish or Butcher's wax. It has a pretty sleek exterior.

Wine case open

Wine case full

Wine case closed

Here's one more, that needs to be recovered, but you can see the wood shell. These must have been fairly common, because I used to see a lot of them, and they're not very different from what good violinists were using in the 1960's. Anybody know how old they might be? This instrument is from the 19th century, but it may not be the original case.

Are these like what you usually find, or better?

Seidel case open

Seidel case full

Seidel case closed

And here's a lower quality case, with no padding and just felt lining. I think its papier mache or something, but I like the shape - it reminds me a little of the American one shown in Glenn Woods' video. The covering is probably varnished fabric of some kind.

Purple case open

Purple case closed

case closed