I know there's been alot of discussion about fiddle bowings....are they necessary, do they get in the way, which approach is best, etc., and I can respect every approach to fiddling for sure.

I thought it would be helpful to do a little summary of the basic bowings (as I know them) and demonstrate them, so I created a 20 minute video demonstrating the Nashville, 2 + 2, Georgia, Synco, and Hokum.  Yes, I left out a few, but these are the giants, in my opinion. (maybe I'll do part 2 later)

And for the music readers out there, I put it down on sheet music to aid in practicing.

I want to say up front, to get the sheet music, you have to enter your email address on a form.....and if that grossly offends anyone, I'm sorry. That's how my delivery method is set up for the purpose of my online lessons. (I won't be offended if you don't sign up)

So, see the video below, and you can get the sheet music via this link:

http://reddesertfiddle.com/rdf-trilogy/

I welcome all feedback!

VIDEO: Fiddle Secrets Part 1: Bowings (click to view)

As always a great video, You and others have been so much help in my journey. This video was really helpful to me, cause I had heard and read about some of the bowings, but had never seen them done. Thanks

Wow! Those were ALL too fast for me to follow.  I've been what I guess you would call "scratching around" on a fiddle for about 9 years, and I have started to realize that I need to start learning some of these patterns to apply them consistently in the tunes I play.  I never really worried about playing the strokes the same every time I play the tune.

If I come to the end of a part (A, B, etc), and I'm not ready to start over on the same (up or down) stroke, I've never worried about it.  I think this is because I have never worried about how to _technically_ play the tune, so I don't think ahead about where I am going to wind up in the bowing cycle in 1, 2 or 3 measures because I'm too busy trying to remember what finger needs to be where on what string next, not in a measure or two.

Guess I really need to stop worrying about the tune and start working on the technique, but that isn't as much fun.

I thought you said making such a video was a lot of work-- you make it look sooooo easy! I'm sure this will help and inspire a lot of people. Thanks a lot!

great help video. All the videos are a big help. The speed and coordination video has helped me so much. Fantastic info.

Oh...gosh that was the first time I ever understood what some f these bowings actually are! Well...regardless of all the argument back and forth in so many interesting bowing threads here, all with good points from everybody, I'm gonna have to just sit down and fidde with this stuff and find out for myself. Pogo has said it forever, but it's hard to try them just going by confusing numbers, etc. you make it look a lot easier to try...to me, the synco seems the toughest to get inside my head. Seems really you skip a couple of beats throughout the loop, which gives it the syncopation...I'll just have to sit dwn with the video and try it for myself. Anyway...that was really a good video, and I can't wait to see part 2! I guess for now I'm gonna see if I can make some of this stuff useable to my own playing. Thank you for such clarification and a very good video!

Edited by - groundhogpeggy on 06/30/2012 04:24:58

Nicely done ..... and well executed. I will say part of the problem for me is different instructors call the same patterns by different names. I look forward to your next video... Thanks... R/

Edited by - UsuallyPickin on 06/30/2012 05:19:45

Thanks for an excellent video. I think I'm starting to see what this is all about. Having some examples to copy makes a HUGE difference. Although I mainly play English traditional music, I believe shuffles like these were once widely used in English fiddling (and have since largely died out), so I'm definitely going to give it a try. It'll be really interesting to see if this makes all my tunes sound Old Timey - and whether that sounds good or bad in a modern context.

In any event, it looks like a really good workout for the bowing arm!

It is either back and forth or up and down, in time with the tune and then there are show out shuffles filled with look at me licks.

Play tunes, have fun.  It will come to you if you do that.

You are a skilled teacher. Your fiddling's not bad either.

Thank you.

Thank you for posting. Honestly though, I have pretty much followed those bowings since I felt they were mandated by the melody. However,  each bowing does serve as a tool to change up some tunes.

I've listened to 7 minutes so far, and it looks very good.

This definitely needed doing, and I think you are very well suited in many ways to do this.

The marked bow, and the sliding the hand on the arm are GREAT ideas, whether original or "borrowed", and I think will make it much more effective. You speak slowly. GOOD! Good plain background, with good contrast.

I had to laugh though at something I've experienced myself- and I think this is probably the SINGLE hardest thing about doing bowing demos-
You mentioned going into a a Georgia Shuffle at the end of the Nashville! I don't usually do THAT particular transition,
but it is SO HARD, once you've programmed your subconscious mind to use the patterns without thinking, it is SO HARD for the conscious mind to re-exert control and keep the individual patterns separate for examples. I haven't done videos because I don't have a camera, but I have posted some mp3s... and I had the same problem.

You obviously have a classical background- I've long thought that classical players would not have a problem with patterns.
They are something very well suited to being broken down and taught step by step.
The way your wrist moves though, changes the phrasing of the patterns somewhat. In the context of Old Time and Contest fiddling, many hold their wrist so loosely that the shorter, unaccented sawstrokes are done with a barely perceptible flick of the wrist. It SOUNDS WAY COOL, but it would make a lousy video (unless you had a close-up lens, maybe), because the short motions wouldn't show up clearly. I think this is also one of the reasons that there isn't more awareness of these patterns, because. the short bow motions of so many Old Timers made the motions much harder to "read". (I'm a bowing freak, and very visual, and I STILL find some fiddlers challenging to decipher what they're doing)
I think your more classical wrist causes the motions to be "whole arm"... and so it doesn't sound quite the way an Old Time player would play them (and aspiring Old Time players reading this thread NEED to keep this in mind) BUT it makes for a video picture that is much easier to follow. I'm guessing you play a lot of Bluegrass???
(The double shuffle section would seem to indicate that)
So for any Old Time players or aspiring Old Time players reading this, trust me- except for the Double Shuffle, this information CAN be applied to Old Time and phrased in a very Old Time sounding way! So often, the bowing patterns are not specific to one genre... but each genre uses a different subset of them, and phrases them in a particular way to get the characteristic sound.

I'm glad you treated Nashville played over notes as being different from Nashville played on a simple drone melody.
I always START learning a new pattern on a drone or unison, and it's a BIG step when I'm able to use the same pattern as a phrasing device for complex melody lines. I will listen more later... it's HARD to go over something this basic for me and keep focused, but it IS interesting to see how you present it.
Thanks for sharing that!

quote:

---

Originally posted by Minim Miser

Thanks for an excellent video. I think I'm starting to see what this is all about. Having some examples to copy makes a HUGE difference. Although I mainly play English traditional music, I believe shuffles like these were once widely used in English fiddling (and have since largely died out), so I'm definitely going to give it a try. It'll be really interesting to see if this makes all my tunes sound Old Timey - and whether that sounds good or bad in a modern context.

In any event, it looks like a really good workout for the bowing arm!

---

It's interesting that you think that... as I go from being a mostly Old Time player to dabbling in Irish Trad and some English tunes, I find myself NOT needing to change my bowing that much- I don't have to think to myself:

"STOP DOING THAT PATTERN!"

I just have to aim for the characteristic rhythm and groove, and it seems the patterns pick themselves and phrase themselves, and end up sounding so different from the way I play them in Old Time, that they don't sound like the same pattern.  Anyway, I tend to wonder if at least some of the patterns in American fiddling, and Old Time in particular, aren't survivals of things done in archaic English, Irish, Scottish, and Welsh fiddling styles (note alphabetical order).... or in the case of Wales, archaic crwth styles!!! 

(One of the things that makes so many of the patterns I use amenable to this is that nearly all can be phrased to emphasize the downbeat instead of the backbeat)

Could some of the indentured servants so common in the 1600s in the American Colonies have been crwth (or "crowd as the English called it) players... and when they got their freedom, they bought or made crowds or fiddles?  A "crwth" or crowd REALLY isn't too much different in construction from a  cigar box fiddle.  Given the number of indentured servants, it would be surprising to me if some hadn't been "crowders" or crwth players.

Oh, and I'm glad you included "Syncoshuffle". It really is a bowing that deserves more attention than it has historically gotten-
Syncopation is such a typically American rhythm, and it fits just fine in many Old Time tunes- but you need a bowing tool to get that syncopation, and Syncoshuffle is IT. It's also very useful because you can phrase it so it DOESN'T syncopate, but can be the easiest way to phrase certain non-syncopated melody passages. I'm just hoping what you call Syncoshuffle and I call Syncoshuffle are the same bowing... I haven't gotten that far yet. we'll see!

A demostration of the shuffles in the context of tunes makes a big difference - to me. I applaud your efforts. Well done.

Banjo Brad-- you said:
" I have started to realize that I need to start learning some of these patterns to apply them consistently in the tunes I play. I never really worried about playing the strokes the same every time I play the tune."

I don't want you to think that you need to "apply these bow patterns consistently" to any tune.....
But, in my opinion, fiddlers should understand these basic patterns, and work at learning them.
Later on, the goal is to just PLAY, and let the patterns emerge on a spontaneous basis. (when possible)
--Lora

Usually Pickin--
You said, "Nicely done ..... and well executed. I will say part of the problem for me is different instructors call the same patterns by different names. I look forward to your next video... Thanks... R/"

I am GUILTY as charged. I regret that I gave names to certain ornaments in my fiddle teaching....names that made sense to me....but then, realized those ornaments or bowings already had 3 other names......

I plan to atone for my sins by compiling a list of "ornaments" and all the names I can think of for every ornament.

(I'll be asking for y'all's help making this list comprehensive!)
--Lora

Pathfinder-
You said it all very well in a nutshell, and I agree:
" Honestly though, I have pretty much followed those bowings since I felt they were mandated by the melody. However, each bowing does serve as a tool to change up some tunes"

Well yours is the modern interpretation of what fiddle tunes should sound like, but I got to say I think you stepped through the traces on your shuffle.  Just too easy to put the accent on the downbeat, where it should be on the upbeat, backbeat or whatever you want to callit. When you played a full measure of notes you didnt accent any beat and sounded good.

FiddlePogo--
Thanks for your information, clarification, and reassurances! They are most welcome.
If you are a bowing nut, I'll have to get your input for Part 2, about which bowings should be included!

Yes, I am classically trained, and I always make that clear to my fiddle students.....that they are getting a classical approach to fiddling....I can't pretend to be from some long authentic line of old time fiddlers! But I do know how to explain the nuts and bolts of things.

Regarding my wrist: Classical wrists are much like the subtle old-timey wrist motions.....you want to move as little as possible for maximum efficiency in bowing, (and longevity in our limbs!) .......but yes, after several videos where even I couldn't tell what I was doing with my bow arm....I learned to MARK the bow, and exaggerate the bowings. (another thing I'm glad you pointed out....IT'S AN EXAGGERATION!)

--Lora

quote:

---

Originally posted by RedDesertViolin

Usually Pickin--
You said, "Nicely done ..... and well executed. I will say part of the problem for me is different instructors call the same patterns by different names. I look forward to your next video... Thanks... R/"

I am GUILTY as charged. I regret that I gave names to certain ornaments in my fiddle teaching....names that made sense to me....but then, realized those ornaments or bowings already had 3 other names......

I plan to atone for my sins by compiling a list of "ornaments" and all the names I can think of for every ornament.

(I'll be asking for y'all's help making this list comprehensive!)
--Lora

---

Well, don't feel too guilty... at least not any guiltier than ME!

I tend to use a name is widespread and that I know is traditional... BUT some of them don't have names to my knowledge.  I also kind of balk at using the names of specific fiddlers for bowings, (and while I do understand the motivation) because sometimes that fiddler isn't reverenced outside of a particular genre, while the bowing itself might be much more widespread.

While I use the name Nashville Shuffle, it seems odd to me to be using that name in the context of a comment on a Scottish or a Swedish tune, where it can also show up.

I feel that names that describe how the pattern sounds or what it can do are the best. Sawstroke is a good example of a descriptive, although perhaps slightly perjorative name.

May the best NAME win!!!!

Double Shuffle in particular seems to have a lot of names.... "Much loved has many names???"

If I had my druthers, I'd rather call it the Hemiola Shuffle!!! 'Cause that's what it is!

Seriously though, this forum might be a good site for sorting some of these names out.  I think part of the problem is that putting together teaching materials is enough work in itself for teacher/authors that doing the research into the best or most traditional names gets shortchanged.  And frankly, part of the "method to my madness" in talking about patterns on this forum is PRECISELY to get the patterns talked about so names will start to stick.  A pattern without a name is REALLY hard to talk about... so any name that STICKS is better than no name at all.

quote:

---

Originally posted by RedDesertViolin

FiddlePogo--
Thanks for your information, clarification, and reassurances! They are most welcome.
If you are a bowing nut, I'll have to get your input for Part 2, about which bowings should be included!

Yes, I am classically trained, and I always make that clear to my fiddle students.....that they are getting a classical approach to fiddling....I can't pretend to be from some long authentic line of old time fiddlers! But I do know how to explain the nuts and bolts of things.

Regarding my wrist: Classical wrists are much like the subtle old-timey wrist motions.....you want to move as little as possible for maximum efficiency in bowing, (and longevity in our limbs!) .......but yes, after several videos where even I couldn't tell what I was doing with my bow arm....I learned to MARK the bow, and exaggerate the bowings. (another thing I'm glad you pointed out....IT'S AN EXAGGERATION!)

--Lora

---

Thanks for the clarification... yes, exaggeration in this kind of videos is a GOOD THING.  The fact that you caught the NEED for that shows me that you really are paying attention to what needs it.
 One of the big challenges in teaching is to put yourself in the learner's place and try to see it through their eyes... i's a gift if someone can do that.

One thing that might be fun though... I play electric guitar, and there is this music store that does gear demo videos on YouTube- they always start the video with an intro of someone playing some cool guitar riff... Maybe you could have a little intro section that you could splice onto the beginning of you playing a representative tune.... it wouldn't need to be long, but it could give the flavor of what the shuffle sounds like in the context of a tune.

Great idea! (having an intro showing some applied fiddle bowings)

I'll have to start throwing some samples in!

quote:

---

Originally posted by RedDesertViolin

Banjo Brad--  ...

I don't want you to think that you need to "apply these bow patterns consistently" to any tune.....
But, in my opinion, fiddlers should understand these basic patterns, and work at learning them.
Later on, the goal is to just PLAY, and let the patterns emerge on a spontaneous basis. (when possible)
--Lora
 

---

I know I don't need to apply them consistently, but when I play the A part of Soldier's Joy, for example, the repeat hardly ever starts with the same direction of the bow.  I know it messes up the sound, because it often messes up my timing, and even makes the tune hard for me to recognize.  Since I've been busy trying to get the tune under my fingers, I've consistently ignored the bowing side of Old Time fiddle, and I think I need to start working on that area.

Banjo Brad.... Oh, I see what you are saying. You know, it's a struggle for me to not get locked into bowing something just one way. I try to teach my students to be able to bow any tune starting up or down.....and to stay versatile. But on SOME tunes, man, if I don't start out on the right bowing, I'm dead in the water!

My vote for the next pattern:

What I call "Sawshuffle":

1-1-1-3-1-1.

If you don't know it, I have it represented three ways in a form of music notation in my photos section.

http://www.fiddlehangout.com/myhangout/photos.asp?id=486

1st is using it as a way of starting a series of Georgias, kind of like you seem to like to do with Nashville.

I modified the graphic I found (with no attribution) to show the two ways I play it- with or without a push, as a pattern in it's own right.  It has kind of a chugga chugga feel that might not be so great for Bluegrass (or might be, you try it) but works great for Old Time.  It also gives a sawstroke feel but without the tightness I feel doing all sawstroke- the 3 note upbow slur somehow allows it to "breathe", if that makes any sense.