I am a begginer older player (55) have been playing about a month. My problem is my back will hurt like heck after playing for a while. It hurt before this too so not a new problem
I play mostly sitting . when the spasms get bad I will usually lean back in the chair and put my left elbow on the arm of the chair if I want to keep playing. Which I usually do
Standing same thing. There are times I have to lay flat on floor to get any relief.
Are there any exercises or different standing positions any one uses that might have the same problem. Have been to doc before. Its just something you have to live with.
kathy c in ky

Posted - 02/07/2010 :  13:25:55      

hey Kathy, welcome aboard !! Ive been playing about a year and a half. Im 46 years old.. My back killed me when I forst started playing. My neighbor who is a massage therapist showed me a stretch that worked wonders. I'll try to describe it for you.

take your right arm and point it across your chest towards your left shoulder, at shoulder height. make sure your arm is fully extented. now take your left arm and curl it around your right arm just above or at the right elbow. now pull it in tight and turn to the left at the waist. you should feel a good stretch. now to the same on the other side.

I do it before I begin to play and sometimes take a break while playing and do it if i feel like im tensing up.

hope I explained this well.

Barry

Posted - 02/07/2010 :  13:26:46  

You should not just have to live with this. How much are you playing a day or week? You may have overdone it. Any chance you can get to a good fiddle or violin teacher who is knowledgeable & interested in the ergonomics of playing for a few lessons? Hard to give more than guesses without seeing you play. Sue

Posted - 02/07/2010 :  13:37:03    

I worked for years as a dog groomer . lifting big dogs into the tub took its toll.
Same as hearing is damaged from high whiney equipment running 8 hours a day.
I think I will try the stretching of the arms across the chest to see if that eases it up some. I love,love,love playing the fiddle.
I play guitar and hammered dulcimer,but this has really grabbed me. I have a cheap vso cecilio from kk music right now (50 bucks) and am saving for a good fiddle. I play bluegrass and gospel mostly. I have 300 saved . I think one around 800 will be a good price.
Love this forum.
Kathy c in ky

Posted - 02/07/2010 :  14:22:07      

it's no fun when it hurts to play. You might try different shaped chin rests, using a shoulder rest if you are not now, particularly if you have a long neck. Try to change some of the variables that you can to see if one of them is the problem.

Sue B's suggestion was very good too. Someone who knows what a comfortable position to hold the violin looks like may be able to help with a couple of simple changes.

Good Luck with it.

Posted - 02/07/2010 :  14:46:20      

Kathy,
I started with a $50 VSO as well. I now have a German made fiddle that was right at $1000 and a decent bow $275. It makes a world of difference. But the VSO got me started and thats what matters. I sold it to a friend who was wanting to play for what I gave for it.

Barry

Posted - 02/07/2010 :  15:11:53  

Play in front of a mirror. That way you can see if your posture changes as you play. Sit up straight and stand up straight if you see yourself slumping forward.

Fiddling Bill

Posted - 02/07/2010 :  15:17:07    

Kathy, (yet another suggestion which just might help?) do you hold the fiddle in "classical stance', IE almost horizontal & the bow arm high? If so try tilting the fiddle down- in both planes, IE peghead lower & bow arm much lower, fiddle tilted down towards the bow arm . Also try sitting on a high-stool. It's no magic bullet but may help.

Posted - 02/07/2010 :  17:18:21        

You get cramping and back pain when you start fiddling for the first time. I would get it after practicing for the first 2 months, then it went away as my body got used to it. It will get better.

Posted - 02/08/2010 :  06:08:01      

First, I highly reccomend stretching before playing. The fiddle is a very physical instrument. Beginners usually are very tense when playing and you need to loosen up. There are several books out about musician injuries and the like. I think the one by Julie Lieberman is a good place to start.

It is easy to go beyond the safe zone of playing and start doing some damage.

Play Happy

Posted - 02/08/2010 :  07:15:32  

I have back problems when I play, too. I get a big muscle knot in my upper back on the left side. It hurts enough that I've set the fiddle aside for long periods, even a few years at times. Massage helps, but doesn't cure it. I've started a yoga class, and I asked the teacher for any suggestions. She, in turn, asked her teacher, who said spinal twists, and this other exercise. Lay on your back. curve your arms up in a circle so that your fingertips touch. Raise them slightly as you inhale, lower them slightly as you exhale. Well, I've tried it, it has a sort of massage effect against the floor, but isn't much. Better than nothing, I guess.

Tim

Posted - 02/08/2010 :  08:23:12  

I suggest finding a Performing Arts doc or PT who can evaluate your playing first, a teacher second if you can't find the former.

Pain should not happen with playing any instrument. If it does, get help!

Posted - 02/08/2010 :  08:29:18  

Fiddle playing uses alot of small deep back muscles and in asymetrical combinations that you never use in in the course of common everyday activities. Go slow and give them a chance to tone and sync up. If you really strained something ice it, and alternate with heat. Don't let it get that far again and rest for a few days. If it continues get some professional advice to make sure you're not aggravating a pre-existing problem because if you have one the fiddle will find it. Don't over practice especially in the beginning. When you feel better do some basic stretching exercises. I remember seeing exercise programs designed just for violin players. Check on line. Hope you feel better.

Edited by - Peghead on 02/08/2010 08:34:07

Posted - 02/08/2010 :  08:44:43          

It sounds like you have a disc out of place, not uncommon with people who have had to work for a living.
I think it is more likely your pain while practicing is from tension. When the pain starts stop and give it some thought.
You can begin to develop stress reduction exercises when you let yourself feel where the tension is.

Posted - 02/08/2010 :  14:21:14          

I agree disc problems could be a factor, but there is another issue.

It takes time to built up sufficient muscle strength to play fiddle or violin.
It's pretty well known that pro violinist right arms and shoulders get rather out of proportion to the left side.
It might not be as extreme for fiddlers, but the bowing arm still gets a bigger workout.
I stopped playing fiddle for 15 years, and when I started again, I would get some
pretty severe pain under the shoulder blade after about 20 minutes of playing.
As those muscles have gained strength, I've been able to play longer and longer, probably up to
about an hour and a half now. A lighter bow also seems to contribute to that.
Anyway, once those muscles get exhausted, my control goes to pieces and my playing goes downhill,
so I stop practicing.

In your case, when the muscles get exhausted, they may not be able to keep you spine properly aligned.

I would also look carefully at the chair you are using for practicing.
I like folding chairs that have upholstered padding on both the back and seat. I find they support the lower back well,
but the back support is low enough that your shoulder blades clear the back- you don't want you're shoulder blades bumping stuff while you're playing. Anyway, that's what works for me, if you are a different size (I'm tall) it might not work for you.
Lower back support is good because it allows you to lean back a little, which in my experience keeps the upper back from tilting forward and getting stressed.

You also need to look at other situations that could be setting you up for back problems, and the fiddling is just tipping you over the edge. When I started having disc problems, it took me at least a year to realize that if I drove without a firm lumbar support cushion, driving was bad for my back, but if I had a firm lumbar cushion, driving was actually beneficial for my back.

Only rarely have I ridden in a car where the lumbar support was so good that it made the lumbar cushion unnecessary.

The chair you use for computing may also be setting you up for more back problems.

Slumping on a couch while watching TV could also cause back problems.... I've seldom found a couch that didn't make my back feel like it was going to go out of whack- they usually don' t have lower back support worth beans.

Posted - 02/08/2010 :  16:27:36    

thanks for all the info.
I found I am tensing a bit when I play. But I found by accident that I am squeezing my neck down some. Why you say.
Stupid bifocals.
Yup I noticed that I kept pusing my chin down and my head back. It finally hit my thick scull I couldnt see the music and I was trying to see out the bottom of my glasses thru the bifocals. didnt even realize it till I slowed down and tried to analize everything I was doing.
Anyway I think what I need to do is go the eye doc .

Posted - 02/09/2010 :  02:03:49          

quote:

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Originally posted by shellyrat

thanks for all the info.
I found I am tensing a bit when I play. But I found by accident that I am squeezing my neck down some. Why you say.
Stupid bifocals.
Yup I noticed that I kept pusing my chin down and my head back. It finally hit my thick scull I couldnt see the music and I was trying to see out the bottom of my glasses thru the bifocals. didnt even realize it till I slowed down and tried to analize everything I was doing.
Anyway I think what I need to do is go the eye doc .

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Posted - 02/09/2010 :  02:03:56          

quote:

---

Originally posted by shellyrat

thanks for all the info.
I found I am tensing a bit when I play. But I found by accident that I am squeezing my neck down some. Why you say.
Stupid bifocals.
Yup I noticed that I kept pusing my chin down and my head back. It finally hit my thick scull I couldnt see the music and I was trying to see out the bottom of my glasses thru the bifocals. didnt even realize it till I slowed down and tried to analize everything I was doing.
Anyway I think what I need to do is go the eye doc .

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