Fiddle Hangout - Playing Advice Forum Feed

double-stop warm-up

eric@fiddlehangout.com — Fri, 24 May 2013 10:33:56 CST

Is there a popular double-stop warm-up scale or exercise?

Cluck Old Hen...

eric@fiddlehangout.com — Thu, 23 May 2013 12:56:50 CST

Just wondering, for those that play "Cluck Old Hen"....I've heard lots of versions, lately.

When YOU play it...do you pluck a string? or Two Strings?...and if so where? 'A' part or 'B' part..? both?...or do you never pluck a string..? (Pizzicato). I've heard all these variations. Just wondering what some folks here thoughts were on this common old tune.

strings

eric@fiddlehangout.com — Thu, 23 May 2013 07:24:09 CST

After 3 years at the same place our band lost our job. we played mostly rock and pop with a little country and mabe a bluegrass tune every so often. I was invited to sit in with a bluegrass band so installed a set of Helicore heavies on my fiddle, boy howdy those strings are great for that stuff. good luck to all.

Transitioning from Steel-core to Synthetic-core strings- NOT a simple thing

eric@fiddlehangout.com — Wed, 22 May 2013 19:23:11 CST

I've tried synthetic core strings several times over the years, and always went back to steel core strings.

Then, I injured my index finger by playing too much on my steel-string dreadnought guitar.

I thought I was going to have to quit fiddle too, but then discovered that synthetic strings didn't trigger the symptoms like steel core strings did- they are more flexible and easier to push down to the fingerboard.

So this time, I HAVE TO make synthetics work for me.

One problem was that the attack is different.... I got used to that.

Another problem was that it helps to bow near the bridge- I'm mostly used to that.

Another problem was that I needed to use less pressure- I'm mostly used to that.

One problem persisted, and it was hard to put into words, until I mentioned to Dan Levenson when he was in town that I was making the transition, and he said that synthetics were too bouncy under the bow for him... and that described it perfectly... it's like when doing a string change the bow just bounced off of a trampoline, and you have to struggle to control what the bounce will do to your next move, and the net result is that you slow down and put in more effort in controlling the bow- enough to tire this old guy out much faster. This seems to be why I could always make synthetics work for slow tunes, but not for fiddle tunes.

Well, I think I found a solution.

I had gotten my bow tension dialed in for steel string to be almost exactly where the tension shows up in increased resistance from the adjuster knob, maybe slacking off a teensy bit.

I tried dialing back the tension from that point about a twist (not a full turn- I'm guessing a half or a third of a full turn of the knob) and the problem disappeared, or at least most of it. I could gig with the fiddle today, and it felt pretty good, not too hard to play it, and that without much in the way of practice for the previous week.

Has anybody had similar experiences transitioning from steel core strings to synthetics? Or perhaps the reverse problem?

Bowing fossils recently unearthed in ancient sediment!

eric@fiddlehangout.com — Wed, 22 May 2013 14:34:13 CST

63 beats on one down bow, 1 beat of upbow (they obviously moved very slowly back then) Could this be the "Lucy" of all down bow patterns?

A part DDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD_U

B part DDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD_U repeat

Curiously, this was also found right next to it.

A Part DDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD

B Part UUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU repete

Scientists are still trying to figure out what it all means

Learning the finger board again

eric@fiddlehangout.com — Tue, 21 May 2013 05:37:41 CST

I just purchased a new (to me) fiddle and decided not to put the tapes on and see what happens. It feels like I am learning the finger board all over again. I have a few hours on it and it's starting to feel better but am curious if this sounds like something some of you have experienced? Thanks

Dave

Giving Up the Tuner

eric@fiddlehangout.com — Mon, 20 May 2013 12:27:32 CST

I've known for a while that I need to quit relying on an electronic tuner for anything but an A and really learn to tune by ear. I'm not sure that I can do it in a noisy jam setting, so I might have a moment of weakness now and again there, but I'm going to try to go cold turkey.

Anyone want to join me in this endeavor?

Advice for a classical violinist trying to fiddle?

eric@fiddlehangout.com — Sun, 19 May 2013 18:08:25 CST

Hey--

I've been playing classical violin since I was 7 (I'm 25 now) and have only recently discovered the wonderful world of fiddle music. I'm loving it, but I'm having considerable difficulty with some facets of it.

So, here are my weak spots in particular:

1. I have always read music, and have never put any thought into figuring out keys or what is a fifth of what or anything of that sort. I don't get how to even begin figuring out how to improvise or even determine what key something is in. It's a big problem and I'm seriously jealous of you guys. My "ear" just isn't trained that way. Any advice?

2. I can't play fast enough. This pertains specifically to the Appalachian fiddle songs I've been trying to learn. Leather Britches and Forked Deer and stuff like that. I watch fiddle players shredding at a ridiculous speed like it's no problem and in the meanwhile I'm struggling trying to get half that speed. Is it just a matter of practicing until you're blue in the face, or are there better bowing techniques, or what?

I'm sure I'll think of other questions, too. Thanks in advance!

Easier Tunes for Beginning Fiddlers

eric@fiddlehangout.com — Fri, 17 May 2013 09:15:11 CST

I'm trying to think of tunes to work on.

I've gone through most of the simple melodies I know really well (Amazing Grace, Red River Valley, I'll Fly Away, Put Your Little Foot) and I can do a few fiddle tunes at %75 speed (Drunken Hiccups, Whiskey Before Breakfast). I think I'll start working on Tennessee Waltz today.

Can anyone suggest tunes that would be good for beginners? Thanks!

hova

Slowing down videos.

eric@fiddlehangout.com — Thu, 16 May 2013 15:20:58 CST

What is the best software for slowing down videos. I know you can do it thru VLC player and such. I saw where amazing slow downer has a program. Any suggestions

kathy c in ky

Ongoing bet over Billy in the Lowground...

eric@fiddlehangout.com — Thu, 16 May 2013 12:38:47 CST

The leader of our BG band has been letting me practice a few easy tunes in D on the fiddle with the band...normally I'm on guitar. Well, he's mentioned Billy in the Lowground, which I don't do because of C being tough..,he keeps mentioning that. Today I sprang into action and I'm now obsessed...I told him by July 4 th, our first practice after the 4 th, I will play Billy in the Liwground, up to speed with the band, or I'll buy him a Coke. If I can do it...he buys me a Coke...this is big time gambling here, a lot at stake...but mainly, it's got my fiddlin burners goin strong on high heat...yes, all the noting, droning, avoiding oopsie strings in C, all the bowing...I'm ready to get down and get n this thing...BITL or bust!!!! I might make a youtube blog of my progress!!!

Playing without double stops

eric@fiddlehangout.com — Thu, 16 May 2013 08:59:52 CST

I have learned to play quite good. However, I am wondering, can you be considered a good fiddle player without using double stops? Does anyone know if any of the old time fiddlers played without using double stops?

fiddledee

Hey look! It's another bowing thread!

eric@fiddlehangout.com — Thu, 16 May 2013 01:27:14 CST

In light of recent attempt to craft a new improved style of bowing threads I humbly submit this simple trial idea..

Here I have posted a video of a fiddler whose bowing I greatly admire, and invite you all to watch it a simply make any remarks that come to mind of how he using the bow. Despite not being very good at this type of analysis myself, I suspect some of you are rather good at it. Maybe after reading your insights and going back to the video I may even begin to learn how to break this stuff down myself. Right now all I've good is "Gosh, he certainly makes it look easy doesn't he?" But I suspect we can do a little better if we all put our heads together.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SsMril_qCHk

Warning: non-OT content

Every Which-A-Way Bowing

eric@fiddlehangout.com — Wed, 15 May 2013 17:24:23 CST

Why not just cover all the bases? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NRgR_7-bwKY

More new ideas...

eric@fiddlehangout.com — Wed, 15 May 2013 06:35:42 CST

Speaking mainly from an Old Time perspective, because its all I have any familiarity with and more than I can handle right now, but welcoming other styles...my idea: in addition to the great bowing ideas in the other thread...one thing I would love to see more of is singing while fiddling. Really I've done this only with Cindy and Lazy John...but it's an area that I think would be tons of fun to get better skilled with. My BG band is hinting around that they might let me actually play a little fiddle here and there...so far I played and sang Lazy John fr them and that little easy song that's fun to play went over pretty good and maybe I might convince them that I can handle little things like that, but besides the personal quest here for that, I just think it 's so much fun it would be a good area to explore. Anyone else...Singiddling threads?????

Fiddle intonation

eric@fiddlehangout.com — Tue, 14 May 2013 19:28:02 CST

OK, when playing, Country, Bluegrass fiddle, just how crucial should "true" intonation be. (or) just try and make it as close as possible, and don't sweat the small stuff. after all, I am Not a violin player(Ha,Ha)

Bow Hold Advice

eric@fiddlehangout.com — Tue, 14 May 2013 15:41:56 CST

Been playing more and more, but I keep screwing up my bow hold.

Anyone ever use one of those bow-grip thingys? I got to get this under control.

New Directionality in Bowing Discussions

eric@fiddlehangout.com — Tue, 14 May 2013 13:22:25 CST

As DougD, rcc keanly observed - very little of these discussions/debates are about actual bowing. (just an overall view/approach)

So a thought is in borrowing from banjophobic's BHO "lick of the week" (though it's not every week)

I think it would be of interest to many folks.

A few thoughts on this.

Show how it is used in context of a specific phrase, passage, in a specific tune.

There is a way it can be inclusive to those who don't think of "patterns" and patterns folks; easily by focusing on just the bowing, accents timing, other nuances, phrasing and flow. Certainly you can still also include reference to pattern terminology (this is using part of a GS) -just don't insist folks have to think of it that way; let them choose to think of what you are showing as pattern or not.

As dave reiner mentioned in another post it's more than just bow direction - so this could incorporate those aspects. So this would be a great place to demonstrate and discuss those. I think it would be great to go beyond "pattern" and quantitative, to the qualitative - and look at what else is going on that might play a role; how the movement is subtlety timed, accented, how to put space in between. For one is the wrist motion involved with direction change, and overall movement involved. For example (a few questions folks ask about) - that looping, circular, cursive e, motion that some folks employ; and an observation where it appears the bowing is using a lot of up; and the bow after starting with a big down movement, mostly appears to be climbing up in the phrase. (might get confused with being an upbower) - I've seen Carter do this quite well, and I think that overall motion is what's giving him the flow he gets. Again perhaps discussing the why and when (which is a question folks want to know as much as how).

It can stay away from the prescriptive, that one HAS to do this bowing for a particular tune, or style. Just showing this how this one lick could be used in a tune. I think it would be useful to include, discuss what that bowing trick achieves, versus another. Possibly demonstrate the difference. Leave it open for folks to offer alternatives, substitutions; and whether or not they are significantly different. (even upside down) - Leave it up to the reader/viewer to decide if the difference is significant.

It doesn't have to be limited to just whole phrase pattern.

For example - a question I hear folks ask is about the up-up that happens on the same note at the end of phrases. A good example is I use is "Cookhouse Joe" - just the last d-u-d-u-d u-u. And show a few different ways folks might do that like rolling the bow, or like scooping, or like the skipping stone (others do something else). Showing not just direction but the timing and accent of each of those. I also show how you can use the same end using the dd(slur) uu(slur) and then the last d u u pulse. Also show them how it's similar, but slightly different, (timed and accented different) on another ending of u-u. I don't think of it as a pattern, as the focus is just those last notes; but the can fit into a pattern. I do make a point that they don't HAVE to put that into the tune; might show them an alternative to play the tune without it (just going the same quick du at the end achieves much of the affect) just showing how to do it if they want to, and leave it up them to decide.

Other aspects might be interesting as well; for one just how to incorporate a slur(s), to leading into beats; to in using bow rocking and using drones as accents; and even trills and stutters (do exist in OT). These wouldn't have to be limited to OT (and SE fiddling). Certainly there are things BG players have certain licks they use in breaks (starts and ends) and in fills; and Irish folks have certain bowing tricks.

Just some ideas. What other bowing "tricks, licks" and aspects do folks frequently wonder about that a video/audio a (LOTW) would be great to cover?

Edit: BTW I would suggest these not delve much into the "authentic" "traditional" - "the way this fiddler did it" - rather just show in the present - the way "you " do it "your" approach, interpretation, and what you think is significant. (although can mention a fiddler(s) of days gone by)

Rolland Fiddle Camp #3 in Colorado June 23-29, 2013

eric@fiddlehangout.com — Mon, 13 May 2013 21:44:24 CST

Fiddlers, our third Colorado fiddle camp (old-time banjo, mandolin & guitar too) will be held June 23-29, 2013 at the Hermit Basin Conference Center, which is located at 9000' elevation in the foothills of the Sangre de Cristo mountains about 7 miles west of Westcliffe, Colorado. It's a beautiful secluded spot, ideal for total immersion into the study of fiddling and old-time music. The small camp setting makes for great camaraderie among participants and insures small group classes and lots of 1-on-1 interaction with the teachers. If you are looking to improve fiddling skills, this is a great place to go. We are offering tuition waivers to two Colorado students & their teacher or guardian. The scholarship value is $335 each, so the recipients only have to pay for room and board & a small processing fee. Would you be so kind as to pass this information along to other fiddlers? The camp serves students ranging from novices to those with professional level skills on the instrument and quite a large age spread. The scholarships are for Colorado residents enrolled in a string class or taking private lessons, at least 11 and no more than 23 years of age. It's a great opportunity for students & teachers. What goes on at the camp seems almost magical. There are many video testimonials from participants at our earlier camps at the website. Full details about the camp and the teachers are at the camp pages within my website www.peterrolland.com. Anyone with questions or commentary can contact me at peterrolland@cox.net, at 480-969-9744 (home) or 602-618-6285 (cell) after June 7, or at www.peterrolland.com. Here's a bit of info about the faculty. You can read full bios at the TEACHERS page of the website. Dan Levenson (www.clawdan.com), a nationally known claw-hammer banjo teacher and performer, author of many books on banjo and fiddle playing (Mel Bay) is on staff to teach old-time banjo & fiddle & help with the jam sessions. Mike Rolland (www.fiddlinmike.com) is the current & 3-time consecutive Arizona State Fiddle Champion, and a super-picker on fiddle, mandolin and guitar. He posts weekly lessons at his on-line teaching website where he teaches fiddle, mandolin & guitar to students around the world. Grace and Matt Rolland have a band called RUN BOY RUN (www.runboyrunband.com) that was featured on Garrison Keillor's "A Prairie Home Companion" twice this spring. In case you aren't familiar with the show, it goes out to over 4 million listeners in a weekly radio broadcast on National Public Radio. Matt teaches mostly old-time fiddle, and Grace teaches singing, cello and calls the evening square dance. Run Boy Run, 2011 winner of the Telluride Bluegrass Band contest, has a busy 3-month touring schedule this summer that includes some stops at Colorado music venues. Check their website for developing details which are posted as soon as they are confirmed. Gail Rolland, a public school orchestra teacher with 35 years experience, directs the Folk Orchestra (I write the arrangements) - this is a great and fun daily activity where participants of all skill levels play together. Gail also helps out with the novice students. I direct the camp and teach everything as needed - I also work with teachers and advanced players. Mike Cirillo (www.fiddlermike.com) teaches jazz, swing and improvisatory violin; he has a performance degree in Jazz Violin from ASU. Finally, I bring in Lynne Denig (www.chinrests.com), director of the annual Paul Rolland String Pedagogy Workshop , as our resident master violin teacher. She's an excellent diagnostician and a great addition to the faculty, helps me with master classes for players needing to improve basic techniques, directs camp warm-ups, gives a workshop on Paul Rolland pedagogy and works 1-on-1 with certain musicians looking to fix problems in their playing fundamentals. Students work daily in small groups and 1-on-1 with a couple of core teachers and have their pick of daily workshops in various subjects according to their interests. We all spend an hour each day playing together in Folk Orchestra where players learn and practice scripted ensemble techniques, including melody, harmony, chordal and backup skills, etc. The dining room is an enjoyable time for a relaxing and well prepared meal and visiting with new friends, and evenings are a real hoot with concerts, jamming and dancing. This year there will be both square dancing and contra-dancing, with all moves clearly explained and taught by Grace and Eden Rolland, and done to live music. Thanks for reading this and passing the information along.

Best wishes, Peter Rolland, camp director; peterrolland@cox.net; 480-969-9744; www.peterrolland.com

"Inappropriate tune titles" - Irish trad tunes

eric@fiddlehangout.com — Mon, 13 May 2013 17:45:38 CST

Discussion on TheSession.org can be found here: http://thesession.org/discussions/30957

HA - my teacher told me he was teaching "Buried my Wife and Danced on her Grave" in a workshop and one of the female attendees threw a fit. Which I thought was pretty lame actually. It's a great tune. In terms of Irish trad, it's good to bear in mind that titles of tunes often have little or nothing to do with the tune itself. The Irish have a nicely wicked sense of humor and generally not a lot of tolerance for ego. Good traits in my opinion.

Texas style music books

eric@fiddlehangout.com — Mon, 13 May 2013 16:31:02 CST

Just finished my first contest this past weekend, finished in the first paying spot, seventh out of nine which I feel pretty good about. I was a little bit disappointed in how I played but I was so nervous when I got up on stage, just wasn't too smooth. I was wondering if there were any books of music that were written in Texas style that yall knew of. I currently use a book by Craig Duncan but would like to get something that I could learn to play from in Texas style. The teacher I have right now is a mostly classical player, so he's not too familiar with contest style fiddle, but if I had some sheet music he could help me out with it pretty easily.

Weird sounding old time titles of tunes...

eric@fiddlehangout.com — Mon, 13 May 2013 15:47:27 CST

...your favorite weird titles...your interpretation as to what the terms refers to...

I'll start: Chinese Breakdown....HUH????

Newbie here, wondering if anyone had any advice on bowing?

eric@fiddlehangout.com — Mon, 13 May 2013 14:29:55 CST

Just kidding.

I will miss bowing threads

eric@fiddlehangout.com — Mon, 13 May 2013 06:04:31 CST

First, I really don't understand how it is offensive to people, whether they are in agreement, disagree, play a different style than what's being discussed/argued...I can't get why it's offensive. I never got it on BHO either, why peope got so upset over drop thumb...it shouda been called drop bomb, on the forum! Anyway...I ended up feeling attacked and unhappy on BHO, dropped not only my thumb but my entire participation. I'd hate to come to feel that way here, though I beleive sometimes I don't see how upset peope are getting online until they blow apart. So, as much as I love the puzzles of bowing and yes, even the puzzles f drop thumb and guitar fingerpicking....as much as I think you are YOU on your instrument ONLY as much as you can find your own way through right hand/ rhythm hand balance in relation to eft hand fingering...as exciting as it is to me...I would rather pay my instruments undisturbed than take a trip to walk on the moon...I think for some reason that I can't understand, it can't be discussed on message boards. So I'm stopping any discussion about it before the board goes sour with me like BHO did. So...we'll just talk about the, the...the weather, then?

Endings for Bluegrass fiddle breaks

eric@fiddlehangout.com — Sun, 12 May 2013 14:20:09 CST

What are your favorite endings for Bluegrass fiddle breaks?

Favorite endings for Oldtime fiddle tunes?

eric@fiddlehangout.com — Sun, 12 May 2013 14:18:52 CST

What is your favorite way to end an oldtime fiddle tune?

Fiddle Kickoffs for Bluegrass breaks

eric@fiddlehangout.com — Sun, 12 May 2013 14:17:39 CST

What are your favorite ways to kickoff a bluegrass fiddle break?

Kickoffs for Oldtime Fiddle Tunes

eric@fiddlehangout.com — Sun, 12 May 2013 14:16:31 CST

What are your favorite ways to kickoff an oldtime fiddle tune?

Can we get along

eric@fiddlehangout.com — Sun, 12 May 2013 10:52:12 CST

Sorry I've been quiet lately, but I'm just not too interested in the bowing wars and I know that some longstanding OT members have been chased off by people like me posting about genres outside of OT.

Bowing is about more than downbows and upbows

eric@fiddlehangout.com — Sun, 12 May 2013 10:17:38 CST

Hello fiddling friends-

About once a year, I try to point out that bowing "patterns" are about much more than bow direction.

I once wrote: "The rhythmic drive, flow of notes, and liveliness of a fiddle tune owe much to the often intricate patterns woven by the fiddler's bow. Bowing patterns include not just sequences of downbows and upbows, but also rhythmic groupings and slurs, accents and pulses, chops and anticipations, bow rocking and string crossings, crunches and ghost notes, and variations (intended or not) from one time to the next through a phrase or tune."

Many fiddlers want to achieve a certain sound or style on the fiddle - perhaps the traditional style of a region, or an ethnic group, or a particular fiddler they like. Some fiddlers approach this process by focusing directly on rhythm and sound quality; others think in terms of patterns that they feel lead to these same goals. Some do both.

And all are interested in playing better and more effortlessly - "in the moment."

Dave

P.S. We continue to have long threads on bowing on the Hangout, underscoring its importance and complexity. Just remember that describing bowing is not the same as divining intentions of the fiddler, nor should describing be equated with prescribing.

P.P.S. Sorry to not post much these days - I've been playing gigs, working on the new bowing book with son Andy, and getting all the sessions lined up for Fiddle Hell in November. And then there's the day job...

Fiddle Hell Massachusetts will be Nov. 8-10, 2013, in Concord, MA. Information here.

I Admit It- The Term "Anywhichway" is broken!! Possible Fixes?

eric@fiddlehangout.com — Sat, 11 May 2013 12:04:29 CST

A post by openbar turned the light on. (Thanks!)

Anywhichway essentially means random.

That doesn't work. Random bowing to my mind SOUNDS random.

What do you call the bowing of a fiddler that is neither Upbowing, nor Downbowing, but in effect a blend of the two?

And the sound of the bowing is rhythmic, not random?

It occurred to me that just calling it Reversible Bowing might do the trick.

At first it sounds silly, because all bowing reverses direction sooner or later. But then you know it couldn't refer to a simple direction change. It has to refer to the ability to do accents in the reverse direction, or to execute phrases in either direction.

The challenge with finding names is to find something that is descriptive, but not so long or "high falutin" that people won't use it. And it can't carry negative connotations. Years ago I ran "Bi-directional Accent Bowing" or somesuch up the proverbial flagpole, and it got shot down because someone didn't like the prefix "Bi-".

Multiple words might get shortened to acronyms, so the acronym would have to be acceptable

Other suggestions?

THEN, there is the issue of finding a term for avoiding "Pattern Bowing"... and Anywhichway has at least sometimes been used for that. That's a distinct issue from downbowing.

The possibility "Tune-Tailored" just occurred to me, since the goal seems to be to just bow the melody (or tune... but "tune" is shorter, a plus!).

Some Really Good Fiddlers I have known with "reversible" bowing approaches

eric@fiddlehangout.com — Fri, 10 May 2013 13:36:25 CST

(Edit: Note- I am no longer using the term "anywhichway"- in the thread title I have changed it to "reversible" but am going to leave it intact in the rest of the thread)

Gary Moore:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s449v0Zt8zw

You of course are familiar with Gary, since he's got a page here and was fairly active for a while.

He won the Senior division at Weiser last year.

I met Gary and heard him play at a festival in California in about 1973 or 1974.

I think I also heard him jamming at the San Diego Folk Festival.

He was FAR ahead of me even then- I was on the ragged edge between beginner and intermediate fiddler. But he was already going in a contest fiddling direction, and that wasn't to my taste.... no accounting for it is there?

Judy Hyman:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4BoW_cOw7CA

I jammed with Judy Hyman and Jeff Claus at Galax in 1976, and visited them in Bloomington, Indiana on the way back to California. This isn't the way she was playing back then, I don't think- I remember them sounding more Highwoodsy, which was common back then, and hey, the Horseflies were based in upstate New York, and so were a lot of the Highwoods members.

Mark Simos:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mGOfOC2RYys

I know Mark from back in Santa Monica in 1976. Got out of touch for years, then back in touch in 2006 via e-mail.

From this video, it's clear he is comfortable with an "anywhichway" bowing style, although it's hard to read because the camera isn't just focusing on him.

Suzy Thompson:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YMoDVwZ0f6Y

I don't know how I met Suzy- she was part of the Bay Area music scene, but in the winter of 1975-76, she came down to Santa Monica, and taught me (and I think also Nancy Neithammer was there) George Booker, Highlander's Farewell, and Minneola Rag. In this video it's clear (especially since it's a teaching video and she's playing super slow) that she doesn't mind getting the bow turned around at all.

Looking through different videos, there are some tunes where Suzy Thompson and Mark Simos look like they're MOSTLY downbowing, but these two are the most clear examples of them playing anywhichway.

What does it all mean? I don't know! Am I still dogmatic??? If I'm posting "anywhichway" bowing examples, I couldn't be TOO dogmatic, now could I?

I could give you downbowing examples too, but for the sake of balance, to give you non-analyzers and anywhichwayers hope and examples to follow, these are some really good ones.

I would have a hard time jamming with Gary Moore since the style is so different and I don't know the same tunes, but if I had the chance, I'd be glad to jam with Suzy, Mark, or Judy (if she's still even playing Old Time) again on some Old Time tunes.

my bluegrass C licks

eric@fiddlehangout.com — Fri, 10 May 2013 12:32:39 CST

I made a video of some of my C licks, key of G. When I was learning these licks it seemed like there wasn't anywhere to learn licks. I had to get these from multiple albums put thru 'the Amazing Slow Downer". So I thought if anyone was looking for lick or two you can skip the work I did and get it here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GnZEkc8nYpg&list=PLbbkRyJDwSmclEXB_ENLt56dNDiRvsvSI&index=12

Need some help

eric@fiddlehangout.com — Fri, 10 May 2013 04:44:30 CST

Hi all I am very new to FHO I have come over from BHO (probably should stick to 5string) but I had an old violin hanging on my wall it is an old German 3/4 .spruce top maple back n sides no name markings on it . thought I would have a go at playing it or at least have it done up for someone to jam with . anyway cut a long story short what size bow will need tried looking on eBay they are saying if your not sure on size measure your old bow this is something I have not got . Also do indeed a 3/4 bow or will any bow work? I have no clue any help would be welcome many thanks

Neil Rennie

ps if this message dose not make sense I can see what I am writing

@

eric@fiddlehangout.com — Wed, 8 May 2013 19:39:11 CST

But if you can't play tunes using the Nashville Shuffle, the Georgia Shuffle, Synco-Psycho Souffle Shuffle, Space Shuttle Shuffle, Cork County Clunk Chunk, Semi-Raggedy Ragtime Stomp Down Bow, Bow Wow Down Bow, Saw Shuffle Supremo, Deep Dished Triangulated Three Beat (for waltz patterns), or the Tennessee Drone Prone Tone Buster--how in the world can you look at yourself in the mirror and call yourself a fiddler?

Admit it! You need bowing patterns! Embrace them. Get cuddly with them.

Why not?

How will it hurt you?

New meaning of Anywhichway...oh noooooo!

eric@fiddlehangout.com — Wed, 8 May 2013 06:00:22 CST

Yes, I've discovered there's another kind f anywhichway to haunt us poor ol fiddlers: after discussion plus thinking as I fed that hungry orphan duck in the back yard, for some crazy reason I've felt like sitting down with Shoot That Turkey Buzzard, not that anyone will give me the time to bother with opening the fiddle case, but IF I did get the time to play, I've got both Shoot That Turkey Byzzard and Bily in the Lowground on my mind, but the thought of C tunes on fiddle kinda hurts my mind. And then , here's the Anywhichway part...as I think f these tunes in ther possible keys...well some tunes work out nice in other keys, other tunings...but some well they seem to need their specific key, otherwise you could end up with.....ANYWHICHWAY drones or doube stops...not good!

I Got A Bulldog, tuning?

eric@fiddlehangout.com — Sat, 4 May 2013 08:09:48 CST

Does anyone play the tune, I Got A Bulldog. In the key of G, do you use a special tuning of the fiddle for this one?

Noob Query: How do you know when you've got enough rosin on your bow?

eric@fiddlehangout.com — Sat, 4 May 2013 01:29:27 CST

Thanks in advance.

complete noob

eric@fiddlehangout.com — Fri, 3 May 2013 17:01:52 CST

I am a complete fiddle noob. I just got one and will start working out of this fiddle primer book when I can actually make some sounds. I got a cheap 120 meadow violin. When I first took it home I could at least make some sounds with the bow on each string, but when I tried to apply the compound to keep the pegs from slipping I broke a string I got it re-strung at the music store, but now I can hardly make any sound on the wound strings. Any idea on what might be causing this?

My First Soundfile.....

eric@fiddlehangout.com — Fri, 3 May 2013 16:26:05 CST

I got the fiddle bug last fall, and ordered what I consider to be an "advanced beginner" outfit from Steve, at Gianna Violins. I have been slow to start, but I finally have been practicing a decent amount. I also play banjo and a little bit of rhythm guitar (also a work in progress). I play by ear, but can read music if I want (I don't like to).

Anyway, here is a quicky rendition of "Down Yonder" that I recorded over a backing track a few minutes ago, warts and all. I figure I need to post a sound file, so everyone can fire away and give me pointers.

I read here often, but seldom post. I plan to change that!

http://www.hangoutstorage.com/jukebox.asp?site=Fiddle+Hangout&URL=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.fiddlehangout.com%2Fmyhangout%2Fmedia-player%2Faudio_player.asp%3Fisjukebox%3Dno%26musicID%3D11020

Random bowing threads of kindness...

eric@fiddlehangout.com — Fri, 3 May 2013 05:17:28 CST

Ok...we are working hard, but sat down for coffee ad picked up grandson's old Chinese plastic fiddle and started trying to play Booth Shot Lincoln in A, GDAE tuning. I don't really know it, but that crazy little fiddle was sitting here and that tune popped out when I started messing with it for a few minutes here...well, it turns out my concept f that tune fits perfectly with straight up Nashville Shuffle all the way through, except...it's hard to keep shuffling, know you ARE shuffling, etc. youtube coming some day before too long, just to help 'splain what I'm talking about, here...now time to get back to work...just posting this so I don't forget by the next time I get a chance to sit down with a real fiddle!!!

Recommendation for Beginner Instruction

eric@fiddlehangout.com — Wed, 1 May 2013 13:08:04 CST

Looking for recommendations for a beginner fiddle instruction book w/ CD/DVD. I like bluegrass, Irish & traditional fiddle tunes. Not interested in a teacher right now.

Thanks

Recommendation for Beginner Instruction

eric@fiddlehangout.com — Wed, 1 May 2013 12:42:18 CST

Looking for recommendations for a beginner fiddle instruction book w/ CD/DVD. I like bluegrass, Irish & traditional fiddle tunes. Not interested in a teacher right now.

Thanks

Fiddle advice for someone just starting

eric@fiddlehangout.com — Mon, 29 Apr 2013 10:14:06 CST

Hey All,

Just wanted to get some advice on playing the fiddle. I'm a complete newcomer and 24 years old. In fact I've never played an instrument before and have a tough time reading music (aka I can't). After reading that you're probably thinking that I should just give up. But I've always been a huge blue grass/folk music fan and after recently getting hooked on Wait So Long by Trampled by Turtles I really want to learn.

So I could use any advice at this point. I want to teach myself and have found a lot of great sites dedicated to free lessons. I also found a 4/4 fiddle for $80 that I'm thinking of buying. Whatever input you feel like imparting I'd really appreciate. And don't hold back; I want complete honesty. I understand how tough it'll be for someone like me but I really want to put the time in practicing. I should also mention that I want to play for friends and family and make a hobby out of it, nothing professional.

So should I do it? Thanks!

Syncopation in Bag of Spuds

eric@fiddlehangout.com — Sun, 28 Apr 2013 21:53:28 CST

Syncopation isn't talked about on the forum as much as I would expect on the forum but it comes up often in my lessons so I thought I'd share a tune with a nice dab of it.

The first sentence in the description below pretty much is what I've been taught so far.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syncopation

Did you know Turkey in Straw is Syncopated?

First I'll share the tune as I first heard it from Gerry O'Conner on a Tenor Banjo

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3OmeMz32tIM

My wife has been learning the tune on Tenor Banjo for a long time. I forget where I found the sheet music, it was on some Tenor Banjo Lesson web site.

I played around with it a long time ago but it just never felt right on the fiddle, so I dropped it for a while. Over the past year my wife is getting better and better and she gave me the itch to pick it up again.

I was really very proud of myself and showed it to my teacher and she said you're missing some critical parts that make the tune what it is. She was politely saying I really had it all wrong.

One of those pieces was the syncopation. I was splitting a syncopated 1/4 note into, two 1/8's.

I've played around with syncopation over the last year and half or so, but never felt it quite as good as I do with this tune.

The Syncopation is on the 3rd note in the B part (and the same note later in the same phrase). Those 2 1/8 notes tied together, are NOT 2 1/8 notes slurred. You don't slur the same note.

That is one way in notation to show the note (in this case a 1/4 note) is crossing the beat.

I really like this tune now, even though I have a long way to go.

The bowing is my teachers suggestion on ONE WAY to bow it. She will vary a tune each time through.

Even though this is just one way to bow it, I really want to have the bow command to bow this way, if I choose to. It is quite a challenge for me.

But when I occasionally get it, it feels right and it feels very cool.

The syncopation also feels very cool when you time it and bow it right.

When my teacher plays that syncopated note she does an Irish flick with the pinky (some call it a half a roll). I'm leaving the flick out at the moment.

This tune was new to my teacher, but she said, wow this is a great Irish Tune. She just loves the structure and all the Irish things you can do with it.

Here is my "Source" file for Notation Composer if anyone wants it.

http://softronix.com/fiddle/bag-of-spuds-the.not

This is the output of my DAW at half tempo, listen for the syncopation. It really stands out. 3rd note of the B part, holds that quarter note through the beat.

http://softronix.com/fiddle/Bag_Of_Spuds.mp3

Here my teacher playing it. The first time she does not Flick that syncopated note and you can hear it more easily. Keep in mind this probably only the 2nd time she has ever played it.

http://softronix.com/fiddle/Bag_Of_Spuds_90BPM.MP3

Couple other gems I learned on this tune. First, the 3rd measure is a killer. One thing that helps is to fret both G and D with 3rd finger in the middle.

My teacher said don't worry that G and D are not fully fretted. It will be a little mushy, but it will be fine. But if she was on G and D string (like in Tamlin) she will fret G string and rock her 3rd finger over onto D (which is what I was doing on this tune). And if it's double fretting a first finger, the strings are closer and first finger is fatter and at a better angle that you can fret both cleanly. So I found interesting that all these different rules for different notes, different tunes and different people. I'm finding that true more and more. On this tune you scootch over, but on the other tune you don't.

Another thing I found with this tune is it really helped my intonation. No idea why. But I could more clearly hear when I'm off and correct for it. Maybe because it has a lot of large intervals (and many are fifths).

Is there any hope for me?

eric@fiddlehangout.com — Sun, 28 Apr 2013 08:37:13 CST

Ah, if you want to hear a sad, distressing story, have a seat, folks.

Hello all, my name is Bailey. I am fourteen, I am an aspiring musician and I have a problem. Well, several, actually.

I want to become a great musician so badly. But my situation is all but allowing of it.

Okay, those problems I was talking about.

1.) I play four instruments. No, no, I'm not the person that says "I play seven instruments". No, you can't play seven instruments. You can play with seven instruments and not be any good at any of them, that's what playing seven instruments does for you. But I play four. And when I say, I play four instruments, I mean that I do, in fact, play four instruments. It would probably be better to say I am still learning some of them, especially oboe. But I'm pretty good at the banjo (four years of playing it now), getting a lot better at piano accordion, and then there's the violin. I'll talk about it later. Well, anyway, I practice them all daily, around an hour each, violin a little more, oboe a little less. Except on the weekends, then I go all out.

2.) Aren't those some of the most useless instruments you've ever heard of? Ha ha, long stories for all of them.

3.) I mean seriously, who plays the accordion anymore?

4.) Okay, okay. Second real problem. I am not a rich kid who started playing at three years of age. I know people like that. X is getting a new job playing piano at some church, $300 per service. Isn't that kind of... ridiculous? No, I do not come from a musical or wealthy family. No one in my family plays an instrument. So when I'm trying to tell someone "Agh! My Bb chromatic scale just sucks so bad! It's when you're going from that fricken D to Eb and then the F on the E string! The F is always sharp, and if you don't land the D just right it's all screwed!"

Silence.

So I've asked various people, in many situations "How do I become a great musician?" Respuestas:

-Practice until you see black spots!!

-Play on good instruments!

-(no. 1) GET A TEACHER, HOODLUM!

I can help the first bullet point. I helped myself right to it. When I get home from school, I go to my room and sit down in front of my music stand. I do not leave that chair until 8:00, except 20 minutes for dinner. 8:00 to 9:00 I do homework. I feel like I'm pretty dedicated. It's about four hours, though divided by four (in unusual ratios)

The second one, a bit iffy. I tend to buy crappy instruments because that's all I can afford, and then occasionally better instruments somehow find their way to me. It's pretty crazy, actually. So this great-great or something aunt dies (I didn't even know I had one) and she had this absolutely gorgeous Italian piano accordion... it just slid right down the family tree trunk to me. It was great, the accordion I played on at the time was pretty horrible.

Then this guy from Juvi? Juvee? Juvenile Detention gave me his grandfather's banjo. It was also a lot better than the one I was playing on at the time.

(No, I wasn't in JuvEi, my mom works there. Pretty scary, right.)

But the violin, no, I had to hand out $300 of my hard earned money to get a better instrument. And $300 didn't get me the greatest upgrade. But's it's good.

(my oboe is just horrible, it's okay because I'm horrible at it, but here in about a year at the most, one of those $1500 sorts better come floatin' on down the river)

So as you can see, fate has a bit of favoritism with me I guess. The accordion that I got for free was appraised at $700; the banjo wasn't, but is probably worth around $300.

Now, that last bulletpoint.

This is something I have never been able to consciously affect. And yet it is one of the most all-important aspect of becoming a great musician.

Private lessons.

Ooh, a chill just went up my spine. A feminine scream rises in the distance.

I do not have a job. Wish I did. But how do you get a job and go to school and still practice four hours a day? Maybe in the summer it will be easier. But neiher myself nor my family has ever had the money to get me private lessons. I am entirely self-taught. I have never had a private lesson in my life. My best teachers- books, recordings, the Internet, human ingenuity.

And, where do find, in rural MO, an accordion teacher? I can't drive to Phili or Naples every weekend, it just doesn't work into my schedule. I don't really need an accordion teacher, though. If I had lessons on another instrument, all that great musical theory and stuff would just come together in no-time.

I'm pretty good at the banjo. I'm not trying to brag, but I've put a lot of work into that thing, and people have told me that I didn't need lessons. It's not an easy instrument by any means, but of all the instruments I play, it's the easiest.

Yeah, I could use an oboe teacher, but where do you get one?? Not a band director who knows a few oboe fingerings, but an oboe teacher?

Now comes the aspect we've all been waiting for. The violin. This is the instrument that I'd like to become the most proficient in. This is the instrument that I'd like to master. If I was able to take lessons for any of my instuments, I'd choose violin.

I can play alright. My intonation needs some work, my vibrato could be better. The reason why these haven't developed much lately is because I am trying to play those ridiculous flat keys in Concert Band. Long story. Yes, I play violin in the oboe section, but this will cease. I will play oboe in the oboe section next year.

But I just think of how much better I could be with lessons. I've never heard of a famous self-taught violinist. Nor ones who came from non-musical families, and didn't start at age three or something ridiculous. There really is no hope, is there. The orchestra is just impossible to crack. Even the best have trouble getting into them. They'll fight to the death over a chair that pays $20,000 a year. My competicion is so far ahead of me, I just can't see me going anywhere.

There are a few things which I just can't bring myself to do.

-Give up one of my instruments. By giving up banjo or accordion, I'd feel like I was depriving the world of a little bit of forgotten culture. They're two dying instruments, especially accordion. I started learning oboe for my band director. We only have one oboe player now, and he is a senior. If no one picked it up next year, we would have no oboe part. And I didn't want to play flat keys on violin for another year. In a way, it would help me make more time for practicing the actual "violin." By giving up the violin, my life would no longer have foundation.

-Lessen my practice times for accordion or banjo. That would mean I would get worse. That's not the point of practicing an instrument.

I want to be good so badly. But I just can't afford lessons. What do I do with my life. I doubt I'll ever be able to get into an orchestra. Are there any jobs playing violin outside one? (It only seems like it gets harder and harder to be successful when you go outside of an orchestra though. Smaller groups, soloist.) What do I do, my friends. Open to discussion, reminiscing, condemnation.

Thank you, for those of you who read the whole thing. It's a long story, I know.

Is there any hope for me?

eric@fiddlehangout.com — Sun, 28 Apr 2013 08:07:37 CST

Ah, if you want to hear a sad, distressing story, have a seat, folks.

Hello all, my name is Bailey. I am fourteen, I am an aspiring musician and I have a problem. Well, several, actually.

I want to become a great musician so badly. But my situation is all but allowing of it.

Okay, those problems I was talking about.

1.) I play four instruments. No, no, I'm not the person that says "I play seven instruments". No, you can't play seven instruments. You can play with seven instruments and not be any good at any of them, that's what playing seven instruments does for you. But I play four. And when I say, I play four instruments, I mean that I do, in fact, play four instruments. It would probably be better to say I am still learning some of them, especially oboe. But I'm pretty good at the banjo (four years of play it now), getting a lot better at piano accordion, and then there's the violin. I'll talk about it later. Well, anyway, I practice them all daily, around an hour each, violin a little more, oboe a little less. Except on the weekends, then I go all out.

2.) Aren't those some of the most useless instruments you've ever heard of? Ha ha, long stories for all of them.

3.) I mean seriously, who plays the accordion anymore?

Silence.

So I've asked various people, in many situations "How do I become a great musician?" Responses:

-Practice until you see black spots!!

-Play on good instruments!

-(no. 1) GET A TEACHER, HOODLUM!

I can help the first bullet point. I helped myself right to it. When I get home from school, I go to my room and sit down in front of my music stand. I do not leave that chair until 8:00, except 20 minutes for dinner. 8:00 to 9:00 I do homework. Then somehow I manage to not be able to get so sleep until about 10:30. No idea how that works, but there's always something to be done. I'm pretty crammed in my practice hours. I feel like I'm pretty dedicated. It's about four hours, though divided by four (in unusual ratios)

Then this guy from Juvi? Juvee? Juvenile Detention gave me his grandfather's banjo. It was also a lot better than the one I was playing on at the time.

(No, I wasn't in JuvEi, my mom works there. Pretty scary, right.)

But the violin, no, I had to hand out $300 of my hard earned money to get a better instrument. And $300 didn't get me the greatest upgrade. But's it's good.

(my oboe is just horrible, it's okay because I'm horrible at it, but here in about a year at the most, one of those $1500 sorts better come floatin' on down the river)

So as you can see, fate has a bit of favoritism with me I guess. The accordion that I got for free was appraised at $700; the banjo wasn't, but is probably worth around $300.

Now, that last bulletpoint.

This is something I have never been able to consciously affect. And yet it is one of the most all-important aspect of becoming a great musician.

Private lessons.

Ooh, a chill just went up my spine. A feminine scream rises in the distance.

Yeah, I could use an oboe teacher, but where do you get one?? Not a band director who knows a few oboe fingerings, but an oboe teacher?

There are a few things which I just can't bring myself to do.

-Lessen my practice times for accordion or banjo. That would mean I would get worse. That's not the point of practicing an instrument.

Thank you, for those of you who read the whole thing. It's a long story, I know.

Great jam tonight

eric@fiddlehangout.com — Fri, 26 Apr 2013 19:52:52 CST

Went with the BG band I play guitar in...we did our thing on stage ( it's a jam but people perform and there also a non-playing audience)... Then the guy who had been at the ther jam down the road a few weeks back was there with his fiddle...at the other jam, he'd just sorta shoved that fiddle into my hands and said try it...very old, hand-made fiddle,..tonight he wanted me to play it after we got ff stage...it was outrageously fun. The weird part is the banjo player wanted to play stuff I just really don't know, never heard of...they started playing and I enjoyed hopping onboard on the fly, so to speak...hanging on however I could with that sweet, sweet-sounding old fiddle...the adrenalin...I'm tellin ya...I thought the happiness of this night was gonna kill me!!! I love that old fiddle...I'm broke, but I asked him what he'd take for t...lol...he laughed and said e could never sell it. I'm tellin ya,..this fiddle just plays!!!!

dealing with an itch

eric@fiddlehangout.com — Fri, 26 Apr 2013 18:00:46 CST

Every once in a while while playing my fiddle, I develop an itch that needs a scratch. Today, a small bug landed on my neck. I thought I could ignore it until the end of my song, but I couldn't. It drove me crazy and I had to stop playing. As soon as I stop playing for an itch or whatever, there seems no way to just resume playing. I lose my grip, I lose my place in the song. How do the pros deal with this?

What the are you playing the in gfiddle for anyway!!!

eric@fiddlehangout.com — Thu, 25 Apr 2013 20:49:21 CST

Really! What the ****!? It's a screechy old box of ****! A bow made of Hair from a horse's ass!

My God! To woo the ladies?! Pshaw! You probably can't play your ****ing way out of a wet paper bag!

Old Time? Oh for the love of God MOLD TIME! When's the last time you made anyone dance, let a lone a bastardly son of a *****?

So, you've made your deal with ol' Satan eh? Didn't you know there was some negotiating involved?

You gave your whole ****ing soul?!!!

Damn it! At least you're doing something useful in your life. The devil needs all the help he can get. Hell's a big place.

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Is there any hope for me?

Is there any hope for me?

Great jam tonight

dealing with an itch

What the **** are you playing the ****in gfiddle for anyway!!!

What the are you playing the in gfiddle for anyway!!!