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Daner - Posted - 11/13/2008: 10:20:02
My Bridge seem s to be warping back towards the tail
I bought the Fiddle with this bridge and the same strings already Installed
I'm not a pro fiddler,But I want the best set up on the Bridge and string as possible
Not sure If there's enough curve In the bridge as well...I don't think a flat style bridge would be good for me,I do hit some strings by mistake alot
Thanks for your thoughts ![]()
Daner From Rockwood Ontario
brya31 - Posted - 11/13/2008: 10:29:52
Dan, I am a rookie so I dont know if my info will help...but my bridge did that and a luthier said I had too thin of a bridge on my fiddle, he then installed a thicker one.
Daner - Posted - 11/13/2008: 10:33:54
I'm trying to get a picture pasted on here...I must be doing something wrong...I will keep trying
Daner From Rockwood Ontario
DougD - Posted - 11/13/2008: 10:36:28
The bridge should make approximately a right angle with the top on the tailpiece side. Sometimes this looks a little wrong - I use a plastic 6" ruler to check 'em periodically. If its warping, you can usually straighten it some with your fingers, or it will get worse. The curve of the bridge is a personal matter, and I'm not sure it really has that much to do with hitting the wrong strings!
I think you need to put the picture on your homepage (or somewhere else with a URL) and link to it.
Edited by - DougD on 11/13/2008 10:37:37
bj - Posted - 11/13/2008: 10:44:41
Daner, is the bridge just tilting? or is it actually warping?
If it's just tilting, then you can fix it simply by detensioning the strings a bit, straightening the bridge, then retuning.
If it's warping, then I'd suggest getting a new bridge cut.
At that time you can go to a more classical style bridge, but then you may have the opposite problem-- it may then be harder for you to cleanly transition between pairs of strings when playing faster using drones or doublestops, which is, after all, a good bit of what fiddling is about. It is a preference though. I know fiddlepogo prefers a classical bridge. I don't. I have one on the french fiddle, and I'm going to get it reshaped.
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Daner - Posted - 11/13/2008: 10:52:17
Looks like the feet of the bridge are flat on the top...maybe new bridge time...but your right not too too classical
Daner From Rockwood Ontario
DougD - Posted - 11/13/2008: 10:56:34
Well, now that you've got the photo up, we can let the pros weigh in!
Two things though - bridges are not symmetrical. The tailpiece side is vertical, but the fingerboard side is angled.
They commonly warp from using the fine tuners more than the pegs when tuning. This pulls the top towards the tailpiece.
I'd just try bending it a bit with your fingers. You'd be surprised how flexible they are. Of course if you want a different contour, then a new bridge is in order.
BTW Daner, you can also do the photo like this: 
Highlight the link and click the "insert image" icon (you have to be using "reply to message," not the quick reply box).
Edited by - DougD on 11/13/2008 11:03:20
bj - Posted - 11/13/2008: 11:13:13
I would try straightening it first. I think it's starting to get pulled out of whack, but I don't think it's irretrievable yet. But I'm not an expert. Detension the strings a bit first. Push gently with your thumbs right under the strings.
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Me on the Web --
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My inspiration:
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fiddlevixen5 - Posted - 11/13/2008: 11:16:00
I had the same problem with one of my fiddles and this is what I did and it worked well..
I marked where the feet of the bridge were on my fiddle with a pencil. I loosened the strings a little so that I could slip a cheapie bridge in and slip the warped bridge out (to keep tension on there so the sound post didn’t fall). Next I soaked the warped bridge in water until it was saturated. Took it out and placed it in between my dresser and the floor until it was completely dry. It was flattened like a pancake with in a day or so and I put it back on my fiddle and it still is straight!
Not sure if you want to go thru all that or just buy a new one but I really liked my bridge and didn’t want to change it.
also if you decide to try to straighten it out like the others suggested by just pushing on it, BE VERY CAREFUL! I have tried that and the bridge snapped in my hands.. :( Not fun.
Edited by - fiddlevixen5 on 11/13/2008 11:22:15
Daner - Posted - 11/13/2008: 11:22:49
Thanks for the replies guys...and the picture tips
I have been using those fine tuners a lot...I don't think I can straighten this bridge...But If I do have to send It down the trail to the ole fiddle shop I'm best to get some new strings put on at the same time. If It will make my fiddling a tad better It will be worth It...Hows the curve on this bridge too flat??
Daner From Rockwood Ontario
Fethelar - Posted - 11/13/2008: 11:39:44
My fiddle's bridge did the same thing abt a year ago.
I had been subjecting my baby to quite a bit of humidity changes from inside dry storage to outside humid playing.
It was bent-over even farther than yours, and once it gets so far,over it won't straighten up because of all the downward pressure.
I didn't have time to cut a new one at that time, but what I did try was remove it and substituting a junk bridge just to hold the strings in-place(loosened but still in-place).
I took the warped bridge and "steamed" it over a teapot.
After the moisture and heat relaxed the wood, I set the flat side(the one that is supposed to be flat) against a smooth piece of wood and set a book on it. I left it that way until it had completely and entirely given up all that moisture I steamed into it(a week or two in a DRY location)...
I didn't have anything to lose since I thought it was a goner anyway... I checked the fit of the feet (ok) and strung it back up. So far, it has stayed upright with no tendency to take a bow.
I also have taken pains to KEEP it square with the top after tuning etc.
The downside is:
I was off my fiddling until it was completely dry again.
And I recognized the benefits of having a "Bridge Jack".
Fiddle, n An instrument to tickle human ears by the friction of a horse''s tail on the entrails of a cat. -Ambrose Bierce-
DougD - Posted - 11/13/2008: 11:40:09
Well, it looks pretty good to me, but thats really up to you. BTW if those strings are Dominants on that fiddle, you don't really need the fine tuners, except on the E string, if your pegs are in good shape.
Eric Sprado - Posted - 11/13/2008: 11:45:10
I use fine tuners 90% of the time! Haven't had a bridge start to warp since I was 12 years old (I'm 63 now). You have to keep an eye on your instrument and straighten up the bridge when it starts to move. May be too late for your current bridge but just make sure you take care of the next one. Simple as that. Keep enjoying your fine tuners. They were one of the better inventions of mankind....
Daner - Posted - 11/13/2008: 12:03:44
I Must say thats a great trick you guys have with the steam or hot water, Then force flatten them...But Like most I don't want to be down without my fiddle for a day...I know Its getting bad I have been practicing so much my fingertips are just black.
Hey there Doug would there be any advantage of me taking the fine tuners off all strings but the "E"
never the less I'm going to be more careful using them, and use the pegs more.
Daner From Rockwood Ontario
DougD - Posted - 11/13/2008: 12:05:43
Not really an advantage. Just that they're more necessary with steel strings than gut or synthetics.
Daner - Posted - 11/13/2008: 12:28:13
I just got off the phone with the Fiddle shop...I told the nice lady my situation about the Bridge...and she said ...Since I was such a good looking cowboy that they would be able to fit a brand spanken new bridge In my fiddle first thing tomorrow morning!!..Wow...Plus there going to set me up with some new strings...There's a E string that wont whistle with the new set.
She was saying that they somtimes drop the whole birdge down a bit to suit the player
And she also told me that they have better string than the Dominats that are on there
Daner From Rockwood Ontario
FiddleDoug - Posted - 11/13/2008: 13:55:11
Daner,
If the bridge is really warping, I would suggest a replacement. I've had several instruments come through the shop with warped bridges that were almost rubbery, and even when straightened, wouldn't stay that way under string pressure. I'd be interested to see what type of string they are recommending. Also, if you're not a really good fiddler, be careful about flattening the bridge curve. It makes the tolerance between string crossing angles tighter than normal.
Doug Wall
www.wallindependent.com
Daner - Posted - 11/13/2008: 15:34:49
quote:
Originally posted by FiddleDoug
Daner,
If the bridge is really warping, I would suggest a replacement. I've had several instruments come through the shop with warped bridges that were almost rubbery, and even when straightened, wouldn't stay that way under string pressure. I'd be interested to see what type of string they are recommending. Also, if you're not a really good fiddler, be careful about flattening the bridge curve. It makes the tolerance between string crossing angles tighter than normal.
Doug Wall
www.wallindependent.com
Thanks Doug I'm going to keep the same style bridge, just for the very reason I think she suggested Pirastros...with a non whistling E Maybe I need more curve shaped on the bridge...so I can stay away from those strings that are not to be heard Daner From Rockwood Ontario
Edited by - Daner on 11/13/2008 15:40:03
DougD - Posted - 11/13/2008: 15:43:33
Hey Daner, if they're going to be able to fit a new bridge, I'd try bending it a little bit yourself. You have nothing to lose. I do it all the time, although its something you have to keep an eye on and take care of before it gets too bad.
Lots of fiddlers play steel strings as opposed to synthetics, but its up to you of course.
carroll - Posted - 11/13/2008: 15:46:53
quote:
Originally posted by Daner
I just got off the phone with the Fiddle shop...I told the nice lady my situation about the Bridge...and she said ...Since I was such a good looking cowboy that they would be able to fit a brand spanken new bridge In my fiddle first thing tomorrow morning!!..Wow...Plus there going to set me up with some new strings...There's a E string that wont whistle with the new set.
She was saying that they somtimes drop the whole birdge down a bit to suit the player
And she also told me that they have better string than the Dominats that are on there
Daner From Rockwood Ontario
You are getting a deal! I didn't think your bridge looked too bad, and I personally think Dominants are fine strings. Save that orginal bridge - you might need it down the line. One thing I do to avoid warping after a major retuning is to pick each string up in turn with my right hand (I'm a rightie) and adjust /straighten the bridge with my left. Fiddle is in my lap. Don't let the luthier put gut strings on though. They are better for some folks, violinists primarily, but you will find them to be a pain to keep in tune. Dominants are very stable - better than gut or steel. - Carroll
FiddleDoug - Posted - 11/13/2008: 16:07:50
Lots of different types of Pirastros. I've got Pitastro Synoxas on one instrument that sounds pretty nice. The same instrument didn't sound as good with Pirastro Tonicas. Different instruments are at their best with different strings. Lately, I've been using D'Addario Zyex strings on some instruments, and like them a lot. As for the bridge, you'll probably be OK with a standard 42 mm radius bridge.
Doug Wall
www.wallindependent.com
lucky - Posted - 11/13/2008: 19:52:32
That bridge might be a little warped, but not too bad. One thing that makes it LOOK warped is that a properly cut bridge is flat on the tailpiece side, and a little curved on the neck side. That makes it look like it is curving back a little. The tailpiece side should form a 90deg angle with the top.
transplant - Posted - 11/13/2008: 20:42:57
Looks like a decent top curve, not far off that 42 mm radius, with the G D and A sitting on top of it like they're supposed to. Hard to see if the E has cut into the wood. Action could be a tad low, or that could be just the way the pic looks. For Dominants or other synthetic strings, 5 mm under the G and 3.5 or 4 mm under the E at the end of the fingerboard is about right. Steel-core strings can go a bit lower. Fine tuners on all 4 still work with Doms, in fact I think they can come in handy for quick little touchups. Still got to keep working the pegs, so the pegs keep working.
Looks warped (cupped) to me, with feet flat on the top, from what shows in the pix. The tail side of a bridge should not be dead-nuts flat, but should have a little bit of crown, generally starting above the heart. Some say 1/3 of the crown should be on the tail side, 2/3 on the side facing the fingerboard, and i have no reason to disagree with that. Easy way to tell in this case is hold a straight edge up vertically to the middle of the back of the bridge. If light shows in the middle, it's cupped, or concave on the back side. This one looks like it's beyond simple bending; needs heat or moisture or both to straighten it out.
Warped bridges generally only get worse if you don't do something (or have it done) but the main reason I don't like them is that they flex up and down too easily, so tightening one string has the unwanted effect of loosening the others, making tuning a never-ending pain.
Best remedy is prevention, once you've got a good bridge on there. Good idea to get in the habit of making sure the bridge is upright the way it's supposed to be (just about that 90 deg angle, but actually a skosh more) every time you tune. Feet flat, and centered on the top. Graphite in the string notches helps you put it right.
________________________________________________
kindly remind me what I''m supposed to do with this thing, now
bj - Posted - 11/13/2008: 22:26:18
Daner, when you get the new bridge in place, simply remember to back off your finetuners and use your pegs once or twice a week, and check the bridge at that time. I do that once a week to all my fiddles. Don't you have a second fiddle? I thought you did. Most of us who can't stand to be without a fiddle in our hands for too long have at least one other fiddle besides our main one. I have three total.
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Me on the Web --
http://doneinstyle.com
My inspiration:
http://www.pandora.com/?sc=sh14633812588807237
voodoo - Posted - 11/14/2008: 04:34:44
Warped bridges are pretty common on relatively inexpensive instruments. Which are pretty much where 99.9999% of us stay. I asked a fellow how to keep this from happening. He showed me a very expensive instrument. First, the bridge was of high quality, Second, the bridge was subtly crowned on both front and back, and was set to not quite have the back (tailpiece side) perpendicular to the plane of the bridge. I inquired of others, did additional research. Now I set the bridge so a line dropped perpendicular to the top of the ribs from the back edge of the top of bridge intersects the feet about 1/4 of the way towards the front. Leaning back, but not as much as many do. I put 1/3 of the crown on the back, 2/3 on the front. Also, I use plenty of crown rather than thinning the whole bridge. I don't have any problem with bridges cut this way warping. The warped ones I see have the flat backs.
www.giannaviolins.com
Friendsville, TN
Daner - Posted - 11/14/2008: 06:04:53
I'm Off to see the Luthier....I'm wondering If different makes and models of bridges, respond differently to string styles.
Daner From Rockwood Ontario
fiddler59 - Posted - 11/14/2008: 09:47:27
This just a general rule....softer brdges=softer tone but can contribute to more bow noise or string noise...harder bridges more power and brilliance, can be too much on some fiddles !!
David B
Fiddlin with peoples heads !!!
Daner - Posted - 11/14/2008: 12:44:29
Well I'm Back from the Fiddle shop...and this Is what happened
The Luthier Looked at the fiddle...and said that the bridge Is Ok ...He explained to me,as some of the members here ,that that bridge should have a slight bend at the front and straight at the back...He also gave me a lesson on tuning with the pegs...and keeping a eye on the bridge.
He did agree that a new set of strings may help my playing...He asked me what sound I was looking for...and I said a deep sound...He suggested the Pirastro Violino with a Pirastro#1 E string and I got a Pirastro Gold E for a spare.
He also shaved 1 mm off the bridge and reset It...Nice Guy only charged me 10 bucks to change the strings and adjust the bridge.
anyway I'm off to try out these new strings...There supposed to have a warm sound to them
By the way...Thanks! for chiming In On this All
Daner
Daner From Rockwood Ontario
Daner - Posted - 11/14/2008: 15:00:18
That new E string make a world of difference...the G string Is somewhat softer sounding than the Dominats....Had to retune alot...hope they settle down soon
Daner From Rockwood Ontario
voodoo - Posted - 11/14/2008: 16:10:16
I don't know that there's a "should" anywhere!
I see many warped flat-back bridges.
I never see a warped double-crown bridge. I was informed by someone rather well known that this would be the case. So I do double crowned when I cut a bridge. Really not particularly visible. But I find myself always surprised at the flat back bridges. I shouldn't be - I generally only see double crowned bridges on quite costly instruments!
Bridges are a bit magic. Need to look like they got from here to there effortlessly, which is demanding to pull off.
www.giannaviolins.com
Friendsville, TN
bj - Posted - 11/14/2008: 17:21:57
I'm happy you're all squared away, Daner! It shouldn't take long for those strings to settle in. In my experience, the first hour they're awful, the rest of the first day they're mildly annoying, after that they're fine.
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Me on the Web --
http://doneinstyle.com
My inspiration:
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Daner - Posted - 11/15/2008: 06:36:46
Just for the record...I forgot to mention That there was some pull on the bridge...from me using the fine tuners for major tuning...so when he changed the strings It came back a bit to where It should be...Snow On the way Up here! Got the fire On...sounds like a great day to just hang out and play the old fiddle
Cheers
Daner From Rockwood Ontario
Fiddlepiper - Posted - 04/06/2009: 13:05:13
All in all it appears the top is too thin, and as all of the above, loosen strings first, then try to straighten to perpendicular. Some put a slight back toward the tailpiece tilt on it....thinking that when they tighten the strings at the peg, it will move forward. The bridge thickness at the top should be 1.5 mm. Now, take a straightedge like a ruler, and place it on the nut and bridge. The gaps between the tip of the fingerboard and ruler when it is in the postion for the E string should be 2.5 mm and for the G string 4 mm.. Some will trim to fit. For correct bridge feet placement to fit the belly of your violin, use 220 grit paper on the belly face up, and holding the bridge, vertically over the paper, rub it back and forth along centerline of belly. No sideways movement. Another note is, if that is the original strings with original bridge, and it has been on there undetermined amount of time, probably can't save that bridge. The tension by the strings when tuned up on the bridge and tailpiece is 70 lb. and eventually the top will be pulled and permanently warped. Best to get a new bridge. Good Luck!
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