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fresiatap - Posted - 03/11/2010: 07:33:49
What is there to now about carving the bridge? Should I have this done? What kind of tocnl changes can I expect from what kind of bridge changes? Does it effect string action at all and make it easier to play the instrument? A luthier offered to do it for me but I don't know why I need it or want it. Should I?
transplant - Posted - 03/11/2010: 07:54:28
I see a lot of bridges that have been left thick, and not trimmed very much. I mostly keep my mouth shut about them, but if I think the instrument has postential. sometimes I mention it. It should not affect the string action height unless you ask for that change. It can make a difference to the sound and playability, as well as the lively response of the fiddle. Why not ask the luthier who offered?
emviolins - Posted - 03/11/2010: 07:55:03
Actually quite a bit more than a lot of people realize. A properly cut bridge and soundpost bring out the instrument has to offer soundwise. In conjunction with a properly done fingerboard it should be most times easier to play. A lot of setups are only fair depending on where it was done. A luthier will fine tune it and possibly use a better quality of bridge. The better quality bridge will make the instrument sound better and it will last longer if maintained. It would help if we knew more about the type of instrument it is.
Ed
Edited by - emviolins on 03/11/2010 07:55:54
woodwiz - Posted - 03/11/2010: 08:11:38
quote:
Originally posted by transplant
I see a lot of bridges that have been left thick, and not trimmed very much. I mostly keep my mouth shut about them, but if I think the instrument has postential. sometimes
Those bridges may be left thick on purpose. Fiddlers tend to avoid bright instruments, and bridges may be left thick with minimal trimming in order to dull the bright overtones. Similarly, a dull violin may get a thin, hard bridge with lots of trimming in appropriate places to brighten it up. Several articles on bridge cutting here: violinbridges.co.uk/ref.php#Lots of conflicting information.
transplant - Posted - 03/11/2010: 08:18:48
Yeah, I remember one that I left as thick on top as a Scrabble tile. I tried to make the rest of the bridge look like I meant it that way, which I did. It was a bright screaming fiddle with pretty wood that some kid's parents got at a festival, I think. Turns out the kid liked it, even with its "permanent mute."
I was talking about bridges that have had their feet fitted, top trimmed, and not much else, generally with a clumsy-looking thickness profile. To me those look more like the result of haste or carelessness or worse, rather than a deliberate tweak of the sound.
woodwiz - Posted - 03/11/2010: 08:22:58
Yep. Just had to point out that not all thick bridges were bad work. I do the same - I'll trim the points and chamfer the edges, put a nice arch on the bottom so that people will know I'm not a complete putz, and maybe wanted it that way. As long as people like the sound...........................
Scrabble tile, huh? Got me beat.
wooliver - Posted - 03/11/2010: 08:25:44
im lucky to have a luthier that lets me look over his shoulder, and explains things. Personally, fitting a new bridge is not a tall task, but like alot of things, there's a mixture of science and art. More harm than good can come from a bad fitting bridge. Between strings, rosin, bridges, bows, soundposts, etc. there's alot to adjust and tune, but it's the smaller part of the equation. It's still 90% operator. If you want to tweek on something, get banjo. 
woodwiz - Posted - 03/11/2010: 09:02:06
It's 90% operator, for sure, but I've been working with a very well made violin that had a perfectly good looking bridge on it, but was unplayable - certainly unsellable. I've cut three different bridges for it so far, and come up with three different instruments - fortunately, each one better than the last. If I can get just a little more out of the G, it will sound like what it is - a $2500 violin.
Everything affects everything, and a good bridge and post won't make a bad fiddle into a good one, but it will certainly make a bad fiddle better, and a bad setup will definitely hurt. Most of the time "plain vanilla" works fine, but it's nice to be able to push the sound in the direction you want.
I've got a recording of a Knilling Bucharest I set up that I'm going to post as soon as I get it uploaded to my web space. It's kind of a demo of what a good setup and player can to to a very so-so instrument.
fresiatap - Posted - 03/11/2010: 09:14:20
I had a Palatino VN-350 to answer emviolins. To tell the truth I find the tone to be OK for my skill level. I guess I would like it to be more mellow and warm a bit, so it sounds like cutting it might make it more bright and less of what I want right now. So is it fitting the feet that effects the action and playability? That is the factor I would be most interested in improving for forty bucks.
giannaviolins - Posted - 03/11/2010: 10:28:37
The first 100 are pretty easy, then it starts to get interesting.
Chuck Naill - Posted - 03/11/2010: 12:12:42
From a players perspective, knowing the proper thickness at the top. I had a lot of problems with the A string because the bridge was too thin. Once I got a new bridge made, never had the problem again. This got the luthier five more set up jobs. 
emviolins - Posted - 03/11/2010: 13:47:57
Considering the investment in your fiddle over a years time, a new setup and strings is not all that much. Most of us probably spend more on soft drinks. Your instrument is probably a little nasal sounding also. The Palatino will never be a silk purse, but there is no reason not to make it better and easier on you to play. In my shop I tend not to use a softer bridge they don't last as long. I try to do a soundpost adjustment and will put either Helicores or Dominants with a wound e to make the sound more mellow and warm. If you do decide to get the work done, in the long run you will be glad you did. As for the bridge you want a certain amount of responsiveness, It can be darkened slightly by the way it is trimmed out.
Edited by - emviolins on 03/11/2010 14:21:59
fiddlepogo - Posted - 03/17/2010: 00:10:14
Some principles from a Japanese website on the matter (thanks whoever posted that link,
and observing a well cut bridge have given me some ideas for improving my own Knilling 4KF's bridges in the last few days,
and it seems to be working. The Rumanian one labeled "Bucharest" is less harsh and a tad sweeter,
the one that smells odd and is probably Chinese is now a bit less nasal. I will <probably> quit while I'm ahead though!!!
fiddlepogo - Posted - 03/17/2010: 00:15:09
quote:
Originally posted by fresiatap
What is there to now about carving the bridge? Should I have this done? What kind of tocnl changes can I expect from what kind of bridge changes? Does it effect string action at all and make it easier to play the instrument? A luthier offered to do it for me but I don't know why I need it or want it. Should I?
It can enhance the amount of bass, and make the fiddle sound less harsh. (I'm sure there are other things it can do, but at the very least it should be able to do this since it worked for me)
transplant - Posted - 03/17/2010: 08:20:33
quote:
Originally posted by fiddlepogo
I will <probably> quit while I'm ahead
Indeed. You will have a harder time putting wood back than you will taking it off, or so they say. I've been told that narrowing the waist below 15.8 or 16 mm is non-standard, as is narrowing the "arms" between kidneys and heart below 5.2 mm. Other parts are harder to put numbers on, like the mass distribution in the profile of the crown. Workers talk about bridges being chesty, and I suppose the other way to go is flat. Things like that can make a difference to how long the bridge holds up in service, as well as sound.
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