moonfiddler - Posted - 03/09/2010:  11:55:03

Folks, I finally left the safety of my little hovel in the woods and attempted to join in my first BG jam last night.
I thought I was playing pretty good all alone and ready to get out there and play but the truth is I SUCK! No kidding, it was the most humbling experience! My hands didn`t work at all. Songs I can play backwards and forward escaped me and I sat there completely lost and drawing blanks. A case of extreme stage fright, palms sweating, heart palps. I felt awful and I felt even worse for the guys that had to witness and listen to this breakdown.
I think I figured out what went wrong. I got out my dusty metronome and set it pretty slow(allegro) and tried some simple tunes and I could not even keep up to that!
From now on I will not practice without the metronome.
Believe it or not, the guys did ask me to come back next week even though I expected to be voted "off the island."

FiddlerJones - Posted - 03/09/2010:  12:17:01

The only failed performance is the one you don't learn from.

Chuck Naill - Posted - 03/09/2010:  12:19:21

A professional told me once that its all about justing doing it over and over.

Don't sweat that experience last night. At least you showed up and it sounds like you made some friends. Everyone who has ever played or sang in front of others has had that experience. It's just part of it. Just stay with it because it will pass. I bet it will be better next week as a matter of fact.

chuck
chucksmusicpage.blogspot.com/

jehanna - Posted - 03/09/2010:  12:31:52

Hey moon, welcome to the long standing club. You are definitely not where no man ( or woman) has gone before. It is so common among new fiddlers I think I will give it a name. How about Jam Terrors. Maybe Jam tremors would be more apt. any one else have one? The most wonderful thing about (most) bluegrass and old time jams is people love fiddlers so much they will put up with a lot to bring along struggling newbies.

M-D - Posted - 03/09/2010:  12:32:01

As has been said before, playing with others is a whole 'nother skill-set in itself. As such, it takes time to develop that. Learn from it, as FJ said, and as Chuck said, dont sweat it. This too shall pass.

harwilli55 - Posted - 03/09/2010:  12:47:00

Fantastic...you faced the biggest fear....getting out with others....and lived through it :-D We've all done it !!! Now, each time that you go back....you will have less of the fear....more of the fun....and your learning will take leaps and bounds. Congrats. !!!

BTW, I regularly embarass myself by going out...but since I have gotten to know the folks....we are all used to my spasticity....which does ameliorate the more I go. Plus, we all get a good laugh when I have a moment...or two... :-D And it is quite the laughter amongst friends.....the other part of it is...they are all aware when I pull something off that I had been unable to before and will clap, or slap my shoulder....there is no better feeling.

And that is the thing about folks who attend open jams for the most part. Many are learning themselves, or they are competent musicians who gain joy from the progress of others.....when you find a jam like that....it doesn't matter how well you do...because you are amongst friends who are pulling for you.

So, I guess my main point is....if they invited you back....that is the kind of group to become a part of !! And developing those supportive relationships only happens if you make the efffort to be there. No one starts at the top....and I have found the bottom a very safe place indeed....lol :-D

Edited by - harwilli55 on 03/09/2010 12:57:23

Blu - Posted - 03/09/2010:  12:50:19

You are now a member of a very large club.

Practicing with the metronome is a very good idea. More than a few times I thought that I had a song down pretty well only to fail miserably when I played it with others because I had not practiced playing it with a metronome. This is particularly important if you are nervous about jamming, because when you miss a note or fall behind panic can set in and made everything a lot tougher. Practicing with the metronome is a big help.

Get back out there. It will get better.

Percy - Posted - 03/09/2010:  12:57:04

I call them the "Jam Jimmies" -- and believe it or not, over time it does get better! Here's what helped me...

Learn one good old standard. It doesn't have to be hard or fancy -- just one that you know the others will be familiar with and then you work on it -- work on it and work on it... get it so you can play that one with speed and good timing... then go to the jam knowing you're going to play one great tune. And then don't worry about playing any of the others... just get ready to play that one good tune...

And once you do that, I think you'll find you can play along with others... but it's the confidence you'll gain from playing one tune well...

At the last jam I was at... I pretty much just sat in the background playing as quietly as physically possible... and then someone asked if anybody knew Midnight On The Water... he was a guitar player and really wanted to hear that one... but nobody knew it... except for me... and I really know that one pretty darned well... so I quietly started it... and the guitar player jumped in and one-by-one so did everybody else. It was so much fun!

And from there, I did Rose of Sharon, The Girls I Left Behind, Bonaparte Crossing the Rhine... and I had the time of my life.

But it was that one tune that I was able to play with confidence that opened my mind for the rest of them!

Edited by - Percy on 03/09/2010 12:57:23

fiddlepogo - Posted - 03/09/2010:  13:24:10

Been there, done that!!!
Got the T-shirt!!!!

It WILL get better!

Reminds me very much of my early days fiddling, I'd practice, sound good and think "If only the guys at the jam could hear me now!!!"
and then go to the next jam and screw up royally!!!

Problem is that when you're practicing, after you've warmed up a bit, you move towards a "peak"
where it starts to come together pretty well.
And then your tempted to think that's your true playing level.
It's not.
It's how well you can play at your worst.
It takes a LOT longer to raise the level of your worst playing than it does to raise the level of your best.

A lot of that is because ANYTHING that is totally dependent on your conscious mind paying attention to it
is SUPER VULNERABLE to anything that distracts your conscious mind!
Like nervousness, stage fright, jitters, a slamming door, puppies, car alarms, and just about anything noticeable, good or bad!

There are two alternatives:
1. Control your environment
Because classical music is so complex, they DO try to control the concert environment to minimize distraction to the performers.
For the rest of us, it's not really realistic.
2. Offload what you learn into your subconscious mind.
Unfortunately, the only way to do this is through repetition, and that takes time.
And in that respect, Bluegrass is a tougher row to hoe than Old Time, because you don't repeat the tune in unison,
you take breaks... and then the spotlight is on you, you get nervous, etc.

So if I were you, I would ALSO look for either an Old Time jam in your area, or some kind of slow jam, either Bluegrass or Irish sometimes have them. That will allow you enough repetition to get some stuff hammered down into the subconscious.
You could even start your own "Slow Bluegrass fiddle tune jam"!!!

I don't consider I know a tune well enough until I can DAYDREAM while playing it.
I don't consider I can improvise well enough unless my fingers can do some default licks without me having to think about it.

Because the nature of most performing environments is that there WILL be distractions.

Oh yeah...
another factor.

Tempo and phrasing "comfort zones".
When you play alone, you naturally pick a tempo and a way of phrasing that is comfortable for you.
Now when I play with a beginner to intermediate player, I DO try and keep it in their comfort zone,
but it's hard to do, and a lot of people won't even try- because they want to stay in THEIR comfort zone!!!
So you will get pushed out of your comfort zone- the tune will be phrased differently than you phrase it,
(say if you play a hornpipe "straight" they'll play it with a bounce, or vice-versa)
or they will play faster... or even SLOWER than you're used to playing it.
So a metronome COULD help if you use it right to play at different tempos,
and also set it sometimes so the beats aren't too frequent so you can phrase it differently.

mudbug - Posted - 03/09/2010:  13:27:35

Hey, Moon! Kudos to you. Getting out there in a strange environment and then playin' dang BLUEGRASS, with people who play it up to speed (and we know what THAT means). I think you should just be proud as punch!

mswlogo - Posted - 03/09/2010:  13:30:09

A few things I have learned that may help (I still struggle at Jams but I'm not discouraged in the least).

The "Fake Book" was a huge mistake that my first teacher started me on.

These are ONE persons ornamented version of a tune. You learn that one and you go to Jam and it's mass confusion, what the heck are they playing !! Especially if they play in a different Key that requires different fingering.

The “core” melody of all these tunes is MUCH easier to play and much easier to play at tempo. Problem is most books and CD’s are ornamented. You have to learn how to extract the core melody or hunt around for it. Some books do have a basic version but sometimes they are too dumbed down. If everyone is playing their “ornamented” version in the Jam what you generally will hear is the core melody. The idea is to add your own “ornamentation” when you’re ready. You'll find it much easier to play the “core” melody (the head) along with the Jam than an “ornamented” one you practiced from the “Fake Book” or similar.

You can get away with playing as little as 1 note from a chord for each ¼ note and it will sound surprisingly good and it will add to the whole.

I have yet to find a good book for the core melodies of common tunes (ideally with a CD) and with Lyrics under the music if it's a song.

I did just order the Portland collection but I believe this is all ornamented.

Edited by - mswlogo on 03/09/2010 13:48:26

Fiddlepiper - Posted - 03/09/2010:  13:55:09

You're being too hard on yourself! Sit back, relax, and keep going to the jams. You will learn from everyone. Meanwhile, have you thought about the many play along jam books available? Homespun tapes has them, and they start slow. Good luck!

moonfiddler - Posted - 03/09/2010:  16:24:15

Thanks for all the encouraging words everybody! That experience really knocked me down a few notches. I fully expected to "take off" and let my freak flag fly but it didn`t happen.
For starters, I was late because my dog wouldn`t come in the house and he`s an old dog and its cold outside so I was 10 minutes late and had no time to warm up or even catch my breath. Then when the music started I was so focused on what the other players where doing I couldn`t figure out where they were in the song so I just did some chops, really faking it. Then when I thought I had a break, the mando wasn`t finished with his so I stepped all over that and faked it some more. I was the only woman there so that may have attributed to my "jam jimmies" or "jam terrors"?
Confidence and timing is what I lack and of course ability. I`ll be eating my humble pie for a long while!

fiddlemanchris - Posted - 03/09/2010:  17:07:18

dont sweat it moon. you got your feet wet. shoot i still get nervous today when i jam with people i hardly know and in a enviroment im not familiar with. but i still think its fun. just have to learn not to worry about making mistakes or anything just have fun and make new friends. thats what music is all about anyway. i think i heard jimmy van cleve say. making mistakes is where you learn.

Leon Grizzard - Posted - 03/09/2010:  17:20:36

I suck eggs every week at the Austin Old Time Fiddlers Assoc. jam. If they would come over to my house on a Saturday afternoon after I've been playing all day, I'd only suck one egg. But no, it is Tuesday night. I come home from work, eat a bite, try to work on some tunes, but always feel rushed. Go down to Artz Rib House and play with guys some of whom have been winning contests for fifty or sixty years. I try to play my new tunes at a loping tempo, and Vernon Worell, the guitarist, accelerates up to contest speed within the first four bars. I crash and burn. I mildly protest, and he says "I don't like lazy fiddlers," or something like that.

I'll be leaving to do it again in about half an hour; I should be practicing, but you can't cram for fiddle club, or practice well when you are tense and rushed.

Keeps me working hard when I have time for productive practice.

Fear of public enbarrassment is a powerful motivator.

bsed - Posted - 03/09/2010:  17:36:23

Or until you get more familiar with some of their songs, why not play some long notes (softly). This actually takes the place of chops and gives you another tool at your disposal. If you know they're playing in key of D, then listen for those D notes and play said notes on your fiddle in some sort of rhythm. Then see if you can tell when the chords change. Listen for those A chords and then play one of the notes in the A chord (A, D, E), or the G chord.

And don't stop going! That would be a bad thing for you to say to yourself "I'm not ready for this yet."
Well, when will you be ready? Exactly! (I saw that shoulder shrug)

moonfiddler - Posted - 03/09/2010:  18:27:39

(shoulders shrugged) I hope to learn more back-up chords so I`m not just sitting there dumbfounded. I did play some soft long notes to add something to the song but with BG as opposed to OT each instrument is expected to play a break and thats when I fell flat on my noggin. Trying to play soft was like hearing chalk scratch on a chalk board, to me anyway. I was surprised when the guys said it was good when to me it sounded like........awful.
This was a come to Jesus eye opener for me playing with other musicians. I am not up to speed and wonder why I ventured off into fiddle playing when I was doing just fine on mando, guitar and bass? May need a shrink to figure that one out?

Skunkhound - Posted - 03/09/2010:  19:33:24

This still happens to me, though less frequently. Just keep playing, and keep going, and some day you'll wonder what all the fuss was about.

albert52 - Posted - 03/09/2010:  19:46:18

Keep pluggin' at it.
First time jitters, mistakes, forgetting the song, not being able to play what you can do at home, the whole magilacuddy has happened to all of us.
At least you didn't shoot your bow half way across the room. I did!!!
Welcome to the nonexclusive club moonfiddler, it will all be like a dream down the road.

AJ

Edited by - albert52 on 03/09/2010 19:49:06

mswlogo - Posted - 03/09/2010:  20:15:04

One other thing I have done is record the session and pratice against it at home. A good digital recorder is worth it's weight in gold. I have an Olympus LS10 and I love it. I record lessons,contra dances, myself and jams with it. Then you can use a slow downer on it if you need too.

Edited by - mswlogo on 03/09/2010 20:16:11

Susan H - Posted - 03/09/2010:  20:23:49

Moonfiddler, look at it this way. What if you had NOT played? You wouldn't have known you need to pay some attention to those weak areas. I'm sure you play really well alone. So do I, but when I go to a jam, I'm like you, I freeze up. However, the more you go, the more you learn and have fun. The other people there may have gone through the same thing you did. You have this one under your belt, go back and have a great time. It may take a few times before you are completely comfortable taking a break, but you can do it! Hang in there.

bj - Posted - 03/09/2010:  21:18:39

I went from being petrified at jams to running one. I've been playing around two and a half years and the Easton OT jam is having its first anniversary next jam, which is two weeks from tonight.

FiddleJammer - Posted - 03/09/2010:  21:39:50

Anything worth doing is worth doing poorly.

rastewart - Posted - 03/09/2010:  22:37:30

quote:

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Originally posted by FiddleJammer

Anything worth doing is worth doing poorly.

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brya31 - Posted - 03/10/2010:  02:55:58

Been there done that and am still doing that. I play along with jam sessions that are on youtube and this is helping me. Dont feel bad, I think we have all gone down that path.

fiddlerjoebob - Posted - 03/10/2010:  06:46:44

Lots of beginers, lots of teachers

round and round it goes

Jump in and hang on tight.

Randy

Blu - Posted - 03/10/2010:  06:49:17

You wrote that when you played softly it sounded like chalk scratching on a chalkboard. I had the same impression of my playing when I tried to softly play extended notes.

An accomplished player told me that although it may sound harsh to the ear of the fiddler who is playing, the sound mellows with distance. He likened it to how an actor in a play has to overly articulate in order to be heard and understood by the audience.

Consider recording yourself while playing extended notes at low volume. Put the mic some distance away from your fiddle. You might find that the sound is not as harsh as what you hear with the fiddle inches from your ear. That might help you to be more comfortable and give you confidence that you can play such notes.

Keep at it.

Dick Hauser - Posted - 03/10/2010:  07:04:16

To a certain degree, your problem might have been nervousness. After you become comfortable playing with these people, you will relax and your playing will become more normal. In addition, nervousness often causes people to rush things. Playing with others will gradually improve your self confidence and your playing. Let members know you are open to constructive criticism.

One other thing, most people are usually overly critical of their playing, or think their playing is better than it actually is. Recording your playing and listening to it will give you a more accurate appraisal of your playing ability.

IMHO, it is better to play with some sort of rhythm device. My favorite thing to play along with is a CD with recorded rhythm tracks by an Irish bodhran player. I also have the "Band in a Box" software that creates rhythm tracks. Aside from the computer, I have a drum machine and several metronomes. I think that playing along with rhythm accompaniment helps a player develop their feel for rhythm. If nothing else, it sure has improved my foot tapping.

Send me your email address. I will send you an email with several software rhythm .wav files. You can try them out and see which one, if any, you prefer. Do you have software that lets you change the speed of recordings ? This software will make using those files I send you much more effective.

NinaS103 - Posted - 03/10/2010:  09:52:25

I know exactly what moonfiddler is talking about. I liked the comment made by someone about "it's how you play at your worst" that's important.

I have been playing three and a half years and attending a bluegrass slow jam in NYC twice a month for over a year. I have learned A LOT from jamming. But screwing up is ever lurking for me. I think preparation is the key. You gotta work on the repertoire before you get to the jam. Knowing how a song goes before you attempt a break and passing on a break if you don't have a clue (yes, you can pass on a break in bluegrass, it's okay!!) is my strategy. That being said, the jam on Monday was run by one of our leaders who really likes fiddle tunes (though he plays every instrument except the fiddle). We had a large crowd (hey, it's NY) and many breaks were given and taken so even a tune like Red Haired Boy which I can play beautifully at home but have a long record at failing to do in a jam started coming to me. I led Angeline the Baker. I've been known to screw that up if I get fancy. But I played the core melody. Didn't even drone. I nailed it. It was great. So I don't have any startling advice but to keep at it, don't try to fancy it up at this point. For your break, just do the plain and simple melody if you can and if not, watch the guitar player's left hand and play the major triad notes for the chords. Your break will be over before you know it.

CelticRose - Posted - 03/10/2010:  18:15:19

Seeing as they asked you back,I think you must've done better than you think-and I'm sure they understood 1st time jitters. Willing to bet their hearts were with you more than you realise.Trust me,I've blown performances before because of stage fright. It's natural,tho not welcome to the player. Be proud that you got up there & did it. It will get better,esp as you get more at ease with the peeps you're jamming with. As for me on fiddle,I'm still way too far in the newbie stage to be jamming as of yet.

bj - Posted - 03/10/2010:  18:22:08

It's never too soon to go to a jam. I regret I didn't go a lot earlier than I did, I would have gotten better a whole lot quicker.

eerohero - Posted - 03/15/2010:  15:10:27

this experience will get you real inspired for further Jam`s

Every Human you ever meet is sended to You, so does every meeting.
theres something real good coming out of it.... believe me , it does.

caeman - Posted - 03/16/2010:  05:05:09

quote:

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Believe it or not, the guys did ask me to come back next week even though I expected to be voted "off the island."

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