Kemo Sabe - Posted - 02/20/2010:  14:30:27

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What are the feelings on the use of a Carvin solid body electric bass (w/amp) in Bluegrass jams?

Thanks for any comments.

[Moved from Playing Advice - Brad]

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Edited by - BanjoBrad on 02/21/2010 18:11:43

Phyddlyr - Posted - 02/20/2010:  14:47:32

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A good bass player can be a jam saver. Just don't turn it up too loud.

coelhoe - Posted - 02/20/2010:  15:41:43

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Boy, I've seen a lot of jams ruined by an electric bass. It is so hard to get the percussive sound you want at really low volume levels. Those low tones just want to spread all over everything. Keep it roots and fifths until you know the tunes.

tonyelder - Posted - 02/20/2010:  17:52:49

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It's hard to get an electric bass (or anything electric) to sound acoustic. But the real problem is that most electric bass players love to play a little more than they need to (with respect to bluegrass), and just a little too loud. I understand how is easy it is to do. I don't want to exclude them, but - then again - I might fall into the more traditional vein here. If I see an electric bass at a jam circle, I'll usually go looking for another circle...

Give me an upright any day.

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Edited by - tonyelder on 02/20/2010 17:54:38

tonyelder - Posted - 02/20/2010:  18:12:02

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quote:

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Originally posted by Kemo Sabe

What are the feelings on the use of a Carvin solid body electric bass (w/amp) in Bluegrass jams?

Thanks for any comments.

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BTW -Welcome Kemo Sabe! I see this is your first post at the FHO.

Please don't be offended if your topic gets moved to another location on the forum. This is suppose to be limited to Playing Advice for Fiddlers.

But it is a good topic. Thanks for posting.

mudbug - Posted - 02/21/2010:  01:43:59

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I think that the ATTITUDE of the bass player in question is more of an issue. Does he (or she) play like an upright player would, with that anticipation of the note i.e. slightly pushing the beat? Is the volume turned low enough so the strings are played aggressively? Is the person trying to play for the style, with root/fifth support where called for or throwing in walking/ jazzy/ blues runs inappropriately? If these were two actual players ( and they ARE), I would LOVE to play with the one, and the other would make me cringe. A good musician is good, irrespective of gear.

fiddleiphile - Posted - 02/21/2010:  06:33:38

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My hat is off to Mudbug! He called it right on. As a professional bass player for the last 30+ years, I can tell you that a seasoned bassist knows his(or her) place in the music. Most people trying to play any style of music try to play within the confines of that style. I don't think too many hard rockers are dieing to play bluegrass or the other way around. Jams are supposed to be fun, if you start weeding out people based on the instrument type they play, you will probably miss out on some FINE times. Before everybody tells me I belong on Bass Hangout, I,m already there! I also have 5 fiddles,and play them all. 3 of them are also ELECTRIC. (Oh No....Mr. Bill!!) Fiddleiphile

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Edited by - fiddleiphile on 02/21/2010 07:08:04

bluemandolinman - Posted - 02/21/2010:  08:59:30

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I'm not a bluegrasser, so I can't really offer an opinion but Bill Monroe would probably say "That ain't no part of nothin" about an electric bass in a BG setting.

Welcome to the FHO, Kemo Sabe.

tonyelder - Posted - 02/21/2010:  10:34:56

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quote:

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Originally posted by fiddleiphile

My hat is off to Mudbug! He called it right on. As a professional bass player for the last 30+ years, I can tell you that a seasoned bassist knows his(or her) place in the music. Most people trying to play any style of music try to play within the confines of that style. I don't think too many hard rockers are dieing to play bluegrass or the other way around. Jams are supposed to be fun, if you start weeding out people based on the instrument type they play, you will probably miss out on some FINE times. Before everybody tells me I belong on Bass Hangout, I,m already there! I also have 5 fiddles,and play them all. 3 of them are also ELECTRIC. (Oh No....Mr. Bill!!) Fiddleiphile

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And I agree with you and Mudbug. I've never played professionally (my only source of income) . But I have played the electric bass in bands in the past and I still own a nice old Kay upright that I like to play on ocassion. But my main instrument has been guitar for the past 35+ years.

I hope you noticed that I hedged my comment by saying "most" and not "all" bassist. Most meaning that chances are good that a bass player who drags an electric bass and amp to a bluegrass jam - did not set out on their musical path with a notion to gear themself up for playing bluegrass music and therefore they probably aren't use to playing bluegrass music. Doesn't mean they can't keep a beat or follow a tune. However, as good as a electric bass player might be at making his playing style "fit" - it will still sound like an electric bass in an acoustic mix.

I'm not saying it will be bad - but just not as good, IMO. YMMV...

But if the bassist is a "bluegrasser" - chances are - he'll have an upright.

Andah1andah2 - Posted - 02/21/2010:  11:26:16

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I can see how it could work out. Yet, the looks you'll be getting while your plugging in and setting up would be priceless.

Skunkhound - Posted - 02/21/2010:  15:28:06

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There have been more than a few contemporary BG bands, and Newgrass bands that used electric bass, like The Seldom Scene(one of my alltime favorites), and Newgrass Revival(not so much). I love the sound of an upright bass, and would choose it everytime, but if the only bass player available only plays electric, have fun with it. I think it's better than no bass.

coelhoe - Posted - 02/21/2010:  18:32:53

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I'd have to disagree that it is better than no bass. An organized band arrangement with an electric bass is not the same thing as an acoustic jam. Two years ago at the Mid-Winter Festival in Denver a fellow came in with one of those large guitar basses and a 60 watt bass amp and joined the largest jam. The large indoor atrium probably had a dozen jams going on in various corners, but one by one they had to quit as the could not compete with the bass. The fellow was a good player but you could not escape the sound. Carpeted room, 20-30 foot ceilings, but even so........

Kemo Sabe - Posted - 03/02/2010:  10:08:56

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Has anybody here heard of an Ashbory Bass? It has an awesome sound - it is a small instrument (18" neck) - and is electric. It has what I would call silicon rubber strings that seem hard to keep in tune in the early days of playing. I am told that the tuning gets easier as you work the strings for a couple of weeks. Anybody have any thoughts on tuning an Ashbory?

Thanks for any comments.

fiddlepogo - Posted - 03/02/2010:  13:47:13

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I saw the Ashbory Bass a few years back, including the idea that it sounds acoustic- but you can't play it
without using talcum powder on your hands!!! Somehow that killed it for me.

Aside from any actual sonic considerations, you WILL get flak from traditionalists with ANY electric instrument in an acoustic setting. Remember how Bob Dylan's fans disowned him when he went electric??? Many people are attracted to acoustic music as a refuge from all the sonic mayhem that gets perpetrated on electric instruments, and they HATE the very idea.

Fact is though that electric instruments CAN be played tastefully and at appropriate volumes, but it's gonna be a HARD SELL for a lot of people... maybe because good taste can be a rare commodity!!!

Sonic considerations:

IF you still want to do it, try something I do when I play my Stratocaster along with acoustic guitars.
Take your amp (hopefully a SMALL ONE) and make that bad boy face into a corner, or against a wall.
This gets rid of the speaker punch that acoustic music people tend to dislike (aka "Chest Thump" which electric musicians can get addicted to) and causes the note to reverberate acoustically and blend better with acoustic instruments.
The speaker is very directional, and that causes problems- if the speakers aren't pointed at YOU, you will think it's not loud,
but whoever it IS pointed at WILL think it's too loud. The wall or corner trick avoids that totally.

And make VERY sure that the volume knob is no higher than it has to be- "better to err on the side of caution"!
You might also try a fretless bass (Squier just came out with one that's a look-alike for the fretless Jaco Pastorius Fender model). And you'd want flatwound strings.
And play simply.

I noticed that Goldtone has a banjo bass. It might have some pluses BUT banjo heads are also very directional, just like speaker cones, and to get past that, the player would have to face against a wall or a corner!!!

Once crazy idea I haven't tried yet, but might also work- is to point the bass amp- speaker cab at the floor!
Like if you had a rectangular wooden stool, took the seat cushion off with the backing board, and rested the amp/speaker cab face down at the floor. The sound would then reflect off of the floor 360 degrees, which would be more like the sound distribution of a standup bass.

Warning- you are responsible for any damage to your amp's knobs or tolex by trying to do it this way- be careful!

mudbug - Posted - 03/02/2010:  13:56:07

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Hey, Kemu Sabe! Yeah, I've heard of the Ashbury, but never heard one. I question buying an instrument that needs it's own special strings. What if the company folds? Does sound intreaging, but it's a pretty wild shape to bring to a trad jam. But then again, the first fender jazz bass was pretty wild in it's day. Maybe if you played it behind a curtain no-one would notice