mudbug - Posted - 02/06/2010:  11:16:44

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For those of you that play both viola and fiddle, how difficult is it to switch between the two, given that the scale lenghs are different?

shadygrove - Posted - 02/06/2010:  12:03:48

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I don't find the difference in scale length gives me much trouble... just find the octave on the next string up with the third finger to get my bearings and everything's relative to that.

The thing I find hard about viola is learning to play harmony while my wife plays the melody on fiddle. I typically have to transcribe a part down an octave to get it in playable range then up a string to play a 5th against the melody or with faster tunes will look for "chord tones" I can use to drone along... basically using the same notes I would use if playing bass to play a kind of "second fiddle" . With a lot more practice I'm hoping that will eventually become second nature. Of course, to make it easier on yourself just take a D tune and call it in G or a G tune and call it C and play your viola with your fiddle fingerings as if it was in the original key while making the rest of the jam adapt to your key

transplant - Posted - 02/06/2010:  12:21:29

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A yup. A few seconds to get oriented, and pretty much good to go. If you are new to the viola, you will find that you are bowing a little further away from your face. That can make it easy to snuggle the bow up too close to the bridge without meaning to, getting that wiry harmonic-y sound.

I am still learning to be gentle with my viola backup to a fiddle, or even fiddles. That bigger box can get louder than they like. Double the melody an octave down, or in its own octave when I can, walk around in the basement in the key du jour, whale on the root of the chord of the moment, or root and fifth together. Or pop backbeats ditto. Different way every time.

At the end of a tune I like to give em the third of the chord they settle down on, If it's a minor tune, I have been known to give them a major third anyway, which my wife hates doesn't especially favor. Hey, that has a long and honorable history, being the Picardy third, and it is a great way to end a minor tune. I've even heard a very accomplished trad Irish player do that once in a while

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Edited by - transplant on 02/06/2010 17:40:05

Irish Violin - Posted - 02/06/2010:  16:23:11

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I haven't found it too bad. The only major differences are the fact that there is no E string but there is a C string. Then there's reading the alto clef. When I started to play the viola I just tuned the strings down on an old violin and that made the size easier for me. I then moved on to a 15' viola. The size isn't musch different to a full size fiddle but there is a tiny difference between spacing. (Like half a semitone)

Dick Hauser - Posted - 02/06/2010:  17:48:13

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Would using a 5 string fiddle work better ? Guess I will have to drop by a fiddle shop and try a viola to see how much tonal difference there is between the viola and a violin.

Irish Violin - Posted - 02/06/2010:  22:30:04

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Acoustic 5 strings are hard to come by. I have a 5 string electric that produces really bad tone so I say the viola is a better instrument.

scrubber - Posted - 02/07/2010:  02:03:31

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I suppose the answer hinges on what you want to do with each instrument!

My viola playing is strictly classical, so when I switch to viola I not only have to adjust for left hand finger spacing (on a 16.5" viola) but also have to add in a wider, slower, continous vibrato and make the necessary adjustments for bow grip, placement and speed. It's not undoable, but I prefer to stick with one instrument at a time (i.e., if I plan to play the viola for awhile, I don't do any fiddlin').

dave

graham - Posted - 02/07/2010:  05:30:20

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The change in scale is a challenge if you are switching between instruments and this causes you to be alot more careful with intonation. An advantage that I have found is that if you play viola for a while and then switch back to fiddle, my intonation on the fiddle is improves.
Also, reading the alto clef is a fun challenge. I like the deepr more resonant tone of the viola, especially around Christmas time for all the holiday tunes. After that, it goes back in the case and comes out again next year.
So, people are playing fiddle tunes on the viola? Maybe I'll give it a try.....

Sue B. - Posted - 02/07/2010:  08:02:08

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My viola-playing is mostly classical, also, though I can play fiddle tunes on it. Generally just play 'em where they fall, meaning a key change down a fifth, since I don't use viola in a group. I worked for a bit with a high-schooler who wanted to take her viola to jams, so we tried the tunes as above, and in the usual key, either down an octave or w/shifting, depending. I am happier w/a big viola than a student one. I have a 14", which means just a pinch bigger all around than a full-size violin. I go easily from violin to that, but need a gap of some hours to go back. Not so w/ a 15andsomething. No idea why. Sue

iceburg - Posted - 02/07/2010:  08:36:35

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I use a 5 string acoustic (a Bradivarius, Chanot model :) ...it works great!! There are wonderful overtones on a 5-stringer that you just don't get on a 4-stringer because of that extra string.
And like ShadyGrove, just do a transcription to the fifth below.
A five string does take a bit more finger prescision in some respects. On a 4-string one can be/or become a bit cavalier on the G-string becuause you don't have to worry about touching a lower string. Further,on a 5-string, the strings are just a tad closer together (on most designs) -- so I would imagine its a more difficult instrument to get accustomed to for people with larger fingers.

Swing - Posted - 02/08/2010:  07:17:42

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quote:

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Acoustic 5 strings are hard to come by. I have a 5 string electric that produces really bad tone so I say the viola is a better instrument.

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There are several good acoustic 5 string fiddle available, Woodwiz here on the forum works at a shop where they produce several price ranges of 5 strings, all very good. There several import brands that from the price will suffice once they have a good set up.

At Fiddle Hell this year we actually had a 5 string show/play/and tell of 5 strings. While we each had our favorite, the consensus was all were very nice and playable.

I have to say that my 5 string (from Woodwiz) is just getting better everyday. But then I may be a bit partial.

Play Happy

Irish Violin - Posted - 02/09/2010:  02:27:11

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quote:

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Originally posted by Swing

quote:

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Acoustic 5 strings are hard to come by. I have a 5 string electric that produces really bad tone so I say the viola is a better instrument.

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There are several good acoustic 5 string fiddle available, Woodwiz here on the forum works at a shop where they produce several price ranges of 5 strings, all very good. There several import brands that from the price will suffice once they have a good set up.

At Fiddle Hell this year we actually had a 5 string show/play/and tell of 5 strings. While we each had our favorite, the consensus was all were very nice and playable.

I have to say that my 5 string (from Woodwiz) is just getting better everyday. But then I may be a bit partial.

Play Happy

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You're soo lucky...me being a student I can't afford to have another stringed instrument. So I just switch from fiddle to viola when it is necessary.

crsamuel - Posted - 02/13/2010:  12:19:26

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I bought a 5string fiddle but I think a viola or 5 string viola would do better. The 5 string fiddle just doesn't project the C string.

quote:

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Originally posted by Dick Hauser

Would using a 5 string fiddle work better ? Guess I will have to drop by a fiddle shop and try a viola to see how much tonal difference there is between the viola and a violin.

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woodwiz - Posted - 02/13/2010:  12:36:59

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quote:

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Originally posted by crsamuel

I bought a 5string fiddle but I think a viola or 5 string viola would do better. The 5 string fiddle just doesn't project the C string.

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You just didn't get a good 5-string!

worldfiddler - Posted - 02/14/2010:  11:12:35

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quote:

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I have to say that my 5 string (from Woodwiz) is just getting better everyday.

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Yep, I have one from him too. It's superb :)

Jim

mudbug - Posted - 02/14/2010:  13:11:46

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So...... all you folks with 5 strings, do you not bother with viola anymore? And are there any problems switching back to 4, like string spacing, or do you even play a 4 anymore. Is the low C now so much a part of your style that you feel constrained by a 4.

transplant - Posted - 02/14/2010:  13:52:46

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I have access to a five-string violin and viola just about any time. I still prefer my own four-string instruments, just because I do. Maybe it has to do with instruments that feel familiar, whose voices I like. Lately, say the last few years, I have gone back and forth between them. For a while I felt most at home on the viola, but lately I've been playing simple peppy fiddle tunes on my violin, so that one is getting all the attention.

Talking to my wife about this just yesterday... she took a four-string acoustic violin to the contra, since it was more suitable for leading the massed fiddles (a dozen, or a few more) that showed up for the annual Valentine's Day pickup band. With the band she plays out with the most these days, she favors the five-string, but the lower register gets used more there, her role being more atmospheric, with the girl singer in front. Still, she likes having the E string for when they want a fiddle break.

Lou - Posted - 02/14/2010:  21:08:05

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quote:

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Originally posted by mudbug

So...... all you folks with 5 strings, do you not bother with viola anymore? And are there any problems switching back to 4, like string spacing, or do you even play a 4 anymore. Is the low C now so much a part of your style that you feel constrained by a 4.

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I have a four and a five string. To be honest, I almost always play my five string now. I mostly use the low C string when doing back up, especially on vocals. That low C string adds a really nice dimension and contrast to vocals. My five string is dimensionally similar to a standard four, except that the rib height is about 25% higher. This gives the sound and projection on the "normal" four strings an added dimension. I do have pictures of my five string posted on on home page if you are curious.

I do try to switch back and forth between the four and the five string, to remain versatile. I can play faster on the four string, because the neck of my five is noticeably wider to accommodate the fifth string. Still, I am enchanted with my five, and it has become my main, go to instrument.